More questions for the Renault 4 online brain trust...

[Millennium4can]

View attachment 18002 Hello people hope everybody is having a nice afternoon. I myself am trying to locate an oil/black sludge leak within the depths of the gtl engine bay and have narrowed it down to what I belive is the water pump... question is if this is indeed the culprit would it not be leaking water also? I have taken a couple of photos to try and help pinpoint what I'm talking about. Any advice on what to do or what not to do as always is greatly appreciated. .

 

[Paul Narramore]

Have you tried cleaning the sludge off with paraffin/white spirit/carb cleaner then you might see better where the sludge is coming from? Yes, that is the water pump.

 

[Millennium4can]

Currently in progress

 

[mr-reno-139]

The only thing that could leak in that area would be the rocker cover gasket

 

[JonathanT]

The only thing that could leak in that area would be the rocker cover gasket

I think so too- looks like the manifold long side rubber gasket is not doing its job- maybe out of line. Oil is visible all along this edge down on top edge of the manifold

 

[benchseat]

I was advised (relative to my other car, a Peugeot 405) that oil in the cooling system could possibly be indicative of a cylinder head gasket failure (in my case there is also the possibility of a defect in the oil cooler : doesn't apply here, obviously).

A cylinder head gasket problem might be introducing a bit of excess pressure into the coolant system which would increase the chance of failure elsewhere (e.g. in the rocker cover gasket or water pump gasket as previously discussed), without necessarily being strong enough to blow hoses.

I understand that, these days, it is easy to diagnose a head-gasket problem by introducing a special dye into the coolant which changes colour in a specific way if it encounters cylinder combustion by-products.

GTLs are notoriously prone to head gasket problems as the cylinder head retaining bolts are barely adequate (as regards length). There have been umpteen posts about this on the Forum over the years.

 

[André4Renaults]

Don't bother with the dye method of confirming a head gasket failure. Run the engine to operating temperatures, open the header tank or radiator top and SNIFF! If you can smell petrol your head gasket's blown! How else would petrol or petrol-based combustion products end up in the water? Other indications are a choppy movement in the water and/or a mayonnaise like substance on the dipstick or the oil filler.

 

[Cornish4]

As mr-renault-139 suggests, leaking rocker box gasket. I would check that first before worrying about blown head gaskets and such like.

 

[Millennium4can]

Ok so……

I have taken the rocker cover off today to check the gasket as it was something installed myself previously. To my surprise and horror it was seated correctly and didn't seem to be the problem. I had a bit off a clean around and the only thing I could really notice was a trail from the breather pipe on the rocker box going down to the lip of the rocker box which holds the gasket in place obviously something is coming from there as the hose has no clip on it its just pushed into place, im not sure if this is normal but think a jubilee is in order.

As chance would have it I had access to a flat drive way for an hour or two so I got the car up on stands and had a look underneath to see if I could trace it from the underside up, I now wish i hadn't bothered as there is black gunk everywhere and im more confused than ever. Where ever it comes from seems to be above the sump so im guessing its not the sump gasket. I have found that the liquid coming out seems to be a clear oil when it hits the floor and doesn't smell like petrol. When I first got the car the first thing I replaced was the fuel pump as it was spraying petrol everywhere so im not sure if that left crap built up everywhere and it softens when the engine gets warm and turns to liquid.

photos will follow but please allow me to thank you all for your advice in advance as this forum and your collective experience is the best tool for a R4 novice and is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Lee

 

[Millennium4can]

 

[mojobaby]

If your rocker cover is still off, have a look in the inside and you'll find a plate spot welded to the top. Oil tends to accumulate there and can restrict the opening to the breather pipe. To clear it, swish some petrol around to loosen it and then find something to scrape out the mess.

It's very likely that the rubber hose that leads from the breather pipe is clogged with old oil too and the oil fumes that are emitted are being blocked. Thats probably the cause of your leak. The oil would run down the side of the rocker cover, get caught up in the channel and flow downwards towards your water pump, where it would overflow..

Hopefully if you clean out that rubber hose and put on a little hose clamp, your oil leak problem will disappear.

 

[Cornish4]

Hi, it might be a good idea to get some Gunk or similar decreasing fluid and clean the engine of all that gunge, then give it a run and see if you can maybe see where the leak is coming from. As you say though Lee it might simply be the leftover residue from that petrol leak, warming up as the engine is run. Let's hope so eh?
Mojobaby just beat me to it. He may have the answer to be fair, so really worth checking that first before tackling the messy job I suggested. Regards Brian.

 

[Iain]

Don't bother with the dye method of confirming a head gasket failure. Run the engine to operating temperatures, open the header tank or radiator top and SNIFF! If you can smell petrol your head gasket's blown! How else would petrol or petrol-based combustion products end up in the water? Other indications are a choppy movement in the water and/or a mayonnaise like substance on the dipstick or the oil filler.

Years ago, when I was an apprentice mechanic, we went by sludge on dipstick, rocker cover oil filler , header tank/radiator bubbling and possibly water vapour from exhaust tail-pipe.

 

[Millennium4can]

Thanks for all your help Boys good face full of black sludge a sore back and a pair of jubilee clips seems to have stopped the leak. How that much liquid cam from the breather on the rocker is beyond me but who am I to question the mechanics of a GTL?