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scraping on hard cornering

mushy green

Enthusiast
Messages
12
Location
edinburgh
My R4 GTL makes a scraping noise on hard cornering with car fully loaded, sounds like wheel rubbing body, but no obvious signs of tyre making contact with chassis or body - maybe car leaning excessively?
 
I've had issues in the past with the exhaust under the wing rubbing on hard cornering. It was a bodge job of ill-fitting parts assembled in the wrong order, fixed by replacing the mixed up exhaust components with ones from a single manufacturer.
 
I've had issues in the past with the exhaust under the wing rubbing on hard cornering. It was a bodge job of ill-fitting parts assembled in the wrong order, fixed by replacing the mixed up exhaust components with ones from a single manufacturer.
Thank you have checked exhaust all looks good, clearance fine, certainly not a bodge job.
On closer inspection there is a v slight rub mark on the rear off side , tyre side wall, it must be rubbing on the wing lip at the bottom where it is turned at 90 deg to form strengthening, scraping due to when fully leaning or suspension compressed I suppose.(car cornering sharp but with only 4 on board no luggage) ,
Clearance between wheel and wings seems to be the same on both sides, suspension rebounds promptly once when pushed down. tyres are Kokoarma 145 80 R 13.
I have had problems in the past with other cars where incorrect wider wheels or fatter tyres have rubbed, but the wheels on this 4GTL are correct.
Any suggestions ?
 
A really slim possibility may be the end of the rear chassis is badly corroded allowing the rear swing arm to pivot unevenly
That is a bit alarmist of me but not an impossibility
Other suggestions include has the car got mudflaps which can rub on the road surface
Or maybe rear suspension is out of alignment
Maybe find out who lives closest to you and ask for a
second opinion
Edit it won't be me who's closest just noticed your location ☺
 
Check also the fuel tank breather tube if this is happening on left turns only. It makes a rather loud noise when it contacts the inner of the tyre.
 
Thank you for all your excellent suggestions, no mud flaps on this one, breather pipe is also well away from any contact points , well tied to top of filler pipe, but I am glad it was mentioned as it was not connected to the filler pipe at the top . Car not corroded , it was rebuilt by Renault reborn a couple of years ago so should be good, certainly looks good.
Certain that the tyre is rubbing as its a very loud scraping when it happens (pedestrians turning heads magnitude). Will try pulling wing out a bit and hope its just a fraction too tight clearance!
I suppose I could check the chassis geometry if there is a blueprint (awaiting Hayes Manual)
 
Could it be weak rear shock absorbers? I had a GTL that scraped on hard cornering (though it did have 175 section tyres) and found that replacing the rear shocks with shiny new decarbon ones almost completely solved the problem.
 
Thats good to hear that this is not the only happening, I think thats certainly worth doing and I had considered it but hoped it would not be necessary given the nominal mileage the car had done since complete rebuilding, where did you buy your shocks?
 
just a possibility ! the tyres should be 135/70 not 145 though I run on these with no problem but if you have a spare with a 135 you could try it ? other possibility weak shox or car has been lowered, or torsion bar ?
 
Finally installed both front and rear shock absorbers, I used KYB rear ref 551045 and front 343022, huge difference in ride and cornering, existing absorbers were old (too old) bushes cracked etc, also rear absorber would stay compressed ie was not double acting, so if you are installing you need to wire up the rears in a compressed state to get them in. One bolt rounded off so bolt had to be cut off with grinder.
One absorber was set up with washers in place for bad road and the other rear normal, note correct position for washers and rubber bushes as its easy to get wrong also one of the washers is thinner and needs to go against the middle plate, thicker ones at the ends to retain the bushes.
Front absorbers Hayens write up is wrong for later 4GTLs,you dont have to move cables and there is no top cup to unbolt, front and rear are easy to do, but you may have to bump the front of the car to get the absorber in whilst jacking the stub axel. You have to remove the front roll bar, the bush that it is pushed into can be set one of two ways, one has more projection than the other, mine were set for the lesser projection but were fouling their support and the roll bar ends were only just into the rubber so were wearing the holes too much.
However after all that the rear wheel was still rubbing the rear wing on cornering with a passenger in the rear - so we grinded 5mm off the lip to the bottom of the wing and problem solves what was the cause who knows - torsion bars, car twisted, rear wing slightly off when restored.
 
I LOVE this forum! you guys cover just about everything.
It wasn't a rubbing noise on the 4GTL, more of a rattle.
Jumped in the little car at my aunty Beryl's home in Leiria, and headed south. At low speed, it sounded a bit like a dry speedo-cable. But the needle wasn't fluctuating, so I ruled that out. Got onto the motorway and it got worse. sounded like a loose vent mounting. Stopped car. Got out and checked. No loose vent. Built speed up again..... jeeez..... what if the sump guard is hanging off?? Pulled over again but undercarriage all good!

Then the light-bulb moment. Not having driven a car with a roof-rack for decades, I had clearly forgotten what a din they can make.....

No cure for that then!

SN858102.JPG

regards, dave
 
The lip in the wheelarch should turn upwards rather than point inwards towards the tyre. It wouldn't surprise me if aftermarket wings missed this feature.

The clearance is tight and rubbing is common with wider tyres than standard. Probably the wing was out of shape. A careful tug on the lip can be enough to persuade a little more clearance. If your car doesn't steer when it goes over bumps then the chassis is probably straight enough. If you get steering over bumps (car jumps sideways) then it is likely rear tracking which could contribute to tight clearances.
 
Dear Malcolm

I think you have hit the nail on the head, the wing was replaced with a new one, and the lip points towards the tyre, which is why the contact was being made (clearance is very tight when the suspension is fully compressed) Apprentice might think this is trivial, to have a shredded side wall at speed is tyresome, having had a blow out on a sharp right downwards bend of a motorway at 80mph whilst overtaking a HGV some years ago the nerves were a little shredded to say nothing of the tyre.
 
Dear Malcolm

I think you have hit the nail on the head, the wing was replaced with a new one, and the lip points towards the tyre, which is why the contact was being made (clearance is very tight when the suspension is fully compressed) Apprentice might think this is trivial, to have a shredded side wall at speed is tyresome, having had a blow out on a sharp right downwards bend of a motorway at 80mph whilst overtaking a HGV some years ago the nerves were a little shredded to say nothing of the tyre.

The earlier replacement wings did not have the turned edge.The latest batch of both front and rear wings seem to be of better quality with the edges turned over and the rear light bolt fixings in place.
The availability of floor pans and chassis legs now make better restorations possible but care needs to be taken to ensure alignment.
When the chassis has been damaged or repaired many times with bad welding this is difficult to do without a jig.
We are lucky that the R4 is now so well catered for with aftermarket parts but we have to remember that they do not always meet the quality of an original.The new chassis full legs are very good if not a perfect copy and the captive nut fixings have been changed to accommodate more readily abailable bolts. For me I would choose a new one well protected every time it makes such a good repair compared to welding up the front and back corners and when used with new floor pans the new metal makes good welds.
 
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