Barn Find Rebuild

[barnfind]

I did know that repair panels are available, but I'd read somewhere that they don't fit too well, and in the spirit of using what you've already got,(in my case a load of steel sheet) I decided to have a go myself. The biggest problem was getting a decent weld without either distorting or blowing holes everywhere. The inner wing is quite light gauge steel and gets most of its strength from its shape, and once that top flange has gone, it is alarmingly flexible. Luckily I had the wing that came off as a reference.

I've stripped the whole lot now and blown in an initial coat of acid etch primer. Next up will be the other side. Then I'll have a crack at the driver's door.

 

[barnfind]

Onwards and upwards

The separated chassis and body shell have now been steam cleaned to remove all the mud and loose corrosion and reveal the actual state of the chassis and as the time comes for some serious welding to start, we can review our approach. Time for a council of war on the way forwards.

The two rear chassis legs are better than thought in the vicinity of the suspension mountings and most of the damage is concentrated at the four floor pan corners, the worst being the front nearside. The cross members are also both in good order as is the main floor.

Treating the rear wheel arches of the separate body shell with the blaster revealed no further rot other than that already identified.
It was agreed that, on the chassis, we would start on the rear suspension mountings initially and then once these and the other structural areas were satisfactorily repaired, we would put the assembly onto the tilter and finish the floor repairs.

In order to make the removed shell more securely mobile, I concocted a simple trolley, using two 150 x 25 sw boards with heavy duty rubber tyred castors bolted to either end. These support via blocks of wood, a dexion angle that runs under each cill and are secured together by an additional dexion member bolted through the timbers outbvoard of the body, to form a simple open frame on castoring wheels. A final dexion strut is fixed diagonally to brace the whole thing up. The result is an arrangement that can be easily wheeled anywhere by one person, and can be loaded onto a trailer when required, for transporting to the paint shop, the body being strapped to the dexion members with webbing and the timber cross members being used to lash down the assembly.
So, I have now left Paul alone to start his reconstruction work on the chassis corners whilst I carry on with the panels.

The second inner wing was actually not bad and after a tickle with the flap wheel and a little cosmetic work, came up very well. That now joins its partner in primer awaiting paint.
The drivers door is the next rot spot. This had some rust problems at the front bottom corner. An easier solution would have been a less rusty replacement door, but most of those around at the moment are for later models with internal hinges and the remaining areas are more or less pristine, so for the sake of a few square inches of new steel, I pressed on.

How this door bottom corrosion occurs is quite interesting, and can be seen once you have chopped out the offending areas. There are quite generously proportioned drain slots at each bottom corner, but these seem to be more or less sealed off from the main door cavity by a fillet of thick wax. Oddly, none of this appears to have penetrated down into the actual vicinity of the drain itself. Whether this is original installation or something that a PO has injected, I am not sure. The actual swage of the doorskin itself appears to be a loose fit, without any sealant, so any water that does get into this area goes into the folded joint and stays there, rusting both the flange and the skin just above the level of the flange. The form of the drainhole is also such that any water that does find its way out of the door, is also fed into the fold of the doorskin from which it can’t escape to fresh air, until it has totally filled the joint!!!!

The saving grace is that with sliding windows and a more or less sealed upper structure, the amount of water ingress must be minimal most of the time, compared, say, to a car with wind up windows.I have countered the lousy detailing with loads of paint on hidden areas and will eventually give the whole thing a good soaking with Dinitrol, in the hopes of preserving it a little better when the car finally hits the road once more.


The door internal corner and flange is now repaired, and I have folded up a piece of replacement skin that I have then let into the bottom of the door. Welding such thin tin without blowing holes or heat distortion is a nightmare, but in spite of some initially blobby welding, the final item, once ground back and helped with a bit of filler looks okay, the new fold over the flange line helping to keep it all straight and true. It just needs some final finishing off and priming.

 

[ggcton]

Great stuff we seem to be going down the same path even to the trolly although mine is made of 4x2s with 8ins wheels.
I bought my replacement panels from

http://www.franzose.de/en/Renault/R4/Chassis/

The cost of the panels are offset by the saving in welding time.
You will see from my last posting that mission creep is starting to take place and as I go along I think I might as well do this while I am at it.
My simple restoration is now an extensive restoration but I should have a great car that will last for years at the end of it.
Keep up the good work Gary

 

[barnfind]

My trolley doesn't look half as well built as yours, but Paul is pretty chuffed with it because it means that he can shift the tub when he wants to get his fire engine out.

 

[alewis]

For the outer mount, not as good as the full jig but I have plans for a simple jig if it helps. Just pass some 8mm bar thu the holes and ensure it stay lining up with the holes on the inner jig. As long as you never fully detach the outer mount it should show if its twisting.

 

[barnfind]

Excellent, I'll pass that on.

 

[Rutger-peer]

Nice project, I'll stay tuned in! Good luck!

 

[orsome]

The car looks remarkably straight and rust free for a '78. [/QUOTE]

..hmm, i would say that was quite nicely put, looks much alike my 77 body but floor panels are in better shape, i guess after 2000 hours it will be rust free

 

[politeperson]

Rear Chassis Leg Repairs.

Just a quick comment on your excellent project.

Taking the body and rear axle off really is the only way to properly repair the rear legs. So well done.

We have repaired a few of these at our workshop and often have found that an undetectable repair is simpler then has been described once the car has been stripped as per yours.

From you pictures, it looks that the corrosion may be confined to the outer faces of the leg of the bottom of the leg. (I cannot quite be sure, but this is quite often the pattern).

This being the case, it is not necessary to use a jig to maintain perfect alignment, just common sense.

The outer section of chassis leg the axle mounting points bolt through is a simple flanged "U" section of pressed steel about 14 inches long.

See below

https://picasaweb.google.com/109039...sLegStrengtheningPanelCut#5639139685730738658

Simply use a small angle grinder to remove the rotten outer skin (follow the red line on the above link). Do this by cutting along the corners, front to back of each leg. Be careful to only slice off the outer layer only as the leg is two or three layers of steel tick.

Use a drill and grinder/ cold chisel to unpick all the spot welds between the piece you are removing and the inner chassis section which might look horrible at this stage..

This will enable you remove an "L" shaped section of the outer skin only.

This will keep the inner section of the strengthening section in place. Therefore all the captive spacers inside the chassis leg will still be in place for reference.

Weld a new "L" shaped piece of steel in place of the old one, I used 2 mm thick steel for extra strength.

Use an appropriate size drill from the inside of the leg to add the axle mounting point holes to the new outer skin,#

The beauty of this is that once the welds and ground and the leg painted, the repair is undetectable and in perfect alignment. It also only takes 45minutes for each side.

Finally fill the chassis leg with the appropriate wax oil at 100psi. This is essential as the repair will rust through from the inside in about 1 year if you neglect this.and it will last forever.

Final tips are-make friend with you local trade motor factor as opposed to Halfords etc as you will save a fortune,

always wash things down prior to painting with Scothbrite and panel wipe NOT THINNERS as this will ensure your paint sticks and you live to tell the tale, again from you local motor factors, and finally

an excellent single pack factory chassis paint is high build self priming satin black in 5 litre tins which just goes straight on to metal.

Regards

James

 

[barnfind]

Chassis

Thanks for all of your supportive comments once again.

Here are a few initial shots of the chassis restoration now under way at Rusty Trucks. A start has been made on the rear offside corner and inner chassis members. Currently Paul is doing his own fabrication rather than using replacement panels, but we will probably buy new outer mounts to bolt onto the rear mounting. Target to complete welding is the end of August.
Impressive stuff and should give the car a substantial life expectancy.

I am continuing to plough through the loose panels, and have now two doors stripped down and repaired ready to go into primer. The offside rear door was pretty well rust free apart from some surface rust on the window frame insert. The other two doors also look reasonable, with some minor dents to sort out, the tailgate just needs rubbing down and painting and the remaining large piece of reconstruction is probably the front nearside corner of the bonnet, where there is a hole in the inside box section that stiffens the bottom edge.

Three of the four window frames (the inserts that take the sliding glass channel) are in reasonable condition with just surface rust, but the fourth is quite poor. It might repair if I can't find a better one, but if anyone has any spares, I'd be happy to take them off your hands.

That leaves the petrol tank and removable rear cross member to derust and paint and the interior seats and panels to clean up. Then its the body tub.

Thanks to Malcolm, I have replaced the missing rear light cover and I am accumulating other odd brake and suspension components as I go along, with a view to eventually refurbishing these when reassembly time finally comes.
I may post a list of any other bits that I am trying to track down at some point.

Enjoy the photos below.

 

[barnfind]

Just a quick comment on your excellent project.

Taking the body and rear axle off really is the only way to properly repair the rear legs. So well done.

We have repaired a few of these at our workshop and often have found that an undetectable repair is simpler then has been described once the car has been stripped as per yours.

From you pictures, it looks that the corrosion may be confined to the outer faces of the leg of the bottom of the leg. (I cannot quite be sure, but this is quite often the pattern).

This being the case, it is not necessary to use a jig to maintain perfect alignment, just common sense......................................................
Regards

James

Hi James

Thanks for your advice. As you can see, the box sections are being carefully dissected to retain the internal stiffeners etc. and we have downloaded quite a few photos of similar jobs so that we have an idea what will be visible when we start cutting.
Paul up at Rusty Trucks , who is doing this, is on his first Renault 4, but is coping magnificently.

Again, many thanks for your detailed post, the interest that this project is generating is much appreciated.

 

[barnfind]

Chassis and doors

Paul is ploughing on through the chassis and for those of you who have missed his own post, here is the link to his photobucket gallery that catalogues in some detail the ongoing work.

http://s484.photobucket.com/albums/rr206/RustyTrucks/Renault 4 Chassis Restoration/

I will, however, continue to put a small selection of chassis repair pictures on this thread.

On the panel front, I am about to embark on my final door. No more rust sagas here, most of the work revolves around sorting out small supermarket car park dings in the panels, which you don't actually see until you get really close up.
There is wax inside all of the door panels, which may account for their good state of preservation.

I was out on my travels today, incidentally, and saw a very nice 1967 reg model, parked near Longstone Tyres in Bawtry. I have posted a pic in Clementines Cafe.

Here are some more photos of the chassis work in progress, front offside corner this time. The first photo shows what we started with.

 

[barnfind]

Return to the rear again, with progress on the nearside and the initial attachment of the new outer support brackets.
As you can see, the ends of the chassis member have been faired in neatly to reduce the mud trap that arises in this area.

On the home front, I have salvaged the petrol tank, and stripped off the layer of underseal on the underside, a miserable job even standing up on a workbench. My comiserations to all those who settle down with heat gun and scraper and strip a complete car underbody lying on their back on the garage floor!!!!
Also the removable cross member has been cleaned up and given a coat of epoxy mastic.

 

[barnfind]

Two pronged attack to report on today.

The chassis welding is proceeding well, and the chassis, following on from the final weld up of the front nearside corner, is now on the tilter to have the final bits done to its underside, whence it will remain for a couple of days for me to get some paint on it.

Meanwhile the tub has had some descaling on the bulkhead toe boards. Nearside is perfect, but a couple of threadbare areas on the offside need treating to a small repair, as do the usual bubbly spot welds on the A panel.

Also attacked the roof which has quite a few minor bubblings of surface rust, that have now been ground back and treated to Acid Etch, as has the surface rust to the bottom of the nearside A panel.

Finally the internal bulkhead has been derusted and treated, and the toe boards treated to a coat of epoxy mastic.

 

[barnfind]

Chassis complete

At last, the chassis finally completed and sat under a fresh (and still wet) coat of Rustbuster Epoxy Mastic, brushed and then rollered out to get a more even finish. The Rustbuster doesn't self level very well, even when using a round brush. Painting a section and then rolling it with the foam roller produces a flatter, slightly orangepeeled surface, which eventually dries to an eggshell type finish.
The rear axle assembly has been dropped off again so that the chassis leg can be painted properly.
A few small patches on the tub and then we aim to reinstall the rear axle and then reunite the two towards the end of next week.Then it is back home to finish off the panel refurbs (mainly the bonnet lid) and sort out some paintwork.

See my efforts with a roller elsewhere on the forum.

 

[barnfind]

Body tub

Work is now completed on the body tub, with some tricky welding around the C pillar completed and the tub and chassis are sitting side by side back at the farm waiting to be united. In the meantime I have reinstalled the refurbished petrol tank and cross member and bolted up the suspension assembly. Brake compensator needs some attention, and I have had to buy a new tank sender and a pack of the nifty three way clips, neither of which unfortunately arrived in time to be installed today.
I would guess that there is a half day's work fitting up the chassis and then its body on.
Looking forwards to seeing it as a whole car again.

 

[nicky4tl]

Hi, Looking good there. well done.
A quick request. Would you have any more photos showing how you kept the bottom of the C pillar aligned during the repair? I have to do something similar.
Thanks
Nick

 

[paulbrook]

See the lump of timber underneath?

That plus measuring from the floorpan center (already marked) to the outer edge of the section in question. I also helped myself as youn can see in an earlier picture by leaving the top half of the curved pice that knits the top and bottom together in place and only fabricating the bottom half. That way it is (almost) bound to line up properly.

But in all these tricky 3 dimensional bodywork issues a combination of a jig of some sort plus lots of measuring are the way to go. And only cut away the minimum amount of metal if you can.

Would you like me to roll some rounded edges into some metal for you to match the profiles of both the boot floor front edge and the sill cover inner edge?

 

[nicky4tl]

Hi,
That makes sense. Thanks. I have a spare piece of sill so my plan is to weld in a section of that. Thanks for the offer of rolling an edge. Unfortunately being in ireland I don't think I'd be able to pick it up so easy. I may be able to use a bit off the top of my spare sill section for the boot floor edge though so its probably ok.
Many thanks
Nick

 

[paulbrook]

OK but I am sure a couple of slices in a jiffy bag would get to Ireland!

Just let me know if you need any; a few euros plus postage would be all that is required