Clementine's Garage
Clementine the Cat
 
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Yellow R4
 
Réparateur d'automobiles

Barn Find Rebuild

Alas, 1973 is the cutoff date for black plates!

Although black plates on post 72 cars are only supposed to be used for cars on display at shows, I have to say that down in our neck of the woods there are a few cars on the road with black plates that shouldn't have them. What can the boys and girls in blue do to you anyway, just tell you to change them, that's all. With a car like the 4 which looks older than it really is, you might get away with it for sometime. Of course for the MOT put the correct plates back on. In this country we abide by "the rules" far too much, it's a pity we are not a bit more like our friends across the Channel, and have a more cavalier attitude at times about things we have a passion for.
I think your car looks fabulous barnfind, bloody well done.:smile:
 
Hi thanks for all of the complimentary comments.

Spent this afternoon finishing off all of the brake plumbing. It rained so hard, that I was almost deafened a couple of times by it roaring on the tin roof.

Got the V5 back today as well, with the colour change on it.
 
Spent yesterday on various bits and pieces, and had to stop work for thirty minutes or so whilst a humdinger of a thunderstorm came overhead.
Then back to the brakes today.
Mine is a tandem master cylinder with a second fluid return line back to the master cylinder. Had to change some of the unions on the master cylinder because they looked a little corroded and I wasn't convinced that they were pulling down properly, but then managed to bleed everything. The pedal is firm, but with about 25 mm free travel before it bites. This might be just the shoes need pulling up a bit, or the free play on the pushrod.
I did try to bleed out the master cylinder bleed screw but nothing came out. Odd, but everything else seems to work as far as I can see.
Box of bits is pretty well empty now.
Scary!!!
 
Dropped the R4 off the trailer today, added 5 litres of unleaded into the tank, connected the battery and turned the key. She started after half a dozen revolutions to suck petrol through from the tank, and I went for a drive....well only the length of the workshop and back....there was a damned great camper van stuck in the entrance and the man with the keys was off site! No matter. I was chuffed enough with that, and tootled backwards and forwards for a few minutes, polishing the rust off the flywheel.
Everything warmed up nicely, no smoke, a nice clear exhaust. The charge meter settled into the right position....just a shame I couldn’t get out of the damned building! I wonderede how long it was since this little car had moved under its own power.
So, a few more jobs. The throttle cable is cranked up too tight and gives a permanent fast idle, so that needs adjusting. The clutch is quite heavy too, but that might just be lack of use. I’ll re-set the free play and see how it goes. The horn is dead (and looks it!). I need new wiper blades, but the windscreen washers work with a little water added and I need to clip the side trims back onto the cills (keep forgetting to take them down). I also received a set of new rear shocks as well, so they need fitting too.
The brake pedal has too much free travel, I’ve checked that all the pipe connections are correct and as far as I can see, nothing is amiss there, so I’ll try adjusting the brake shoes and have a look at the free play in the operating rod, then another bleed. I need to check the rear hub bearing nuts as well.
Here are a few extra pictures, hopefully the next lot will be in the great outdoors.
 
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The clutch is quite heavy

i know the feeling, great job done !

"The clutch is quite heavy too, but that might just be lack of use. I’ll re-set the free play and see how it goes."

have y seen my thread, clutch problems..mine was totally dead, could drive one mter inside garage with 1st gear, then tried to put reverse and engine stop.did that same thing many times and adjusted the clutch, but only finally resulting to a bended clucth pedal.

took off the motor(again!) and inspected the pressure assy, it need my total weigth to operate-it's certainly too much

bougth new pressure set from melun plus new clutch wire-just waiting to receive those(some funny problem with my postal adress, they say?)
 
Out of the building at last

Tightened up a few brake unions, adjusted the throttle cable and went for a short drive this morning. Yes, the camper van wasn't there and we zoomed out of the shed, around the yard a few times and then down the farm road for half a mile or so.
I noticed a few more minor bugs, but generally everything seemed to do what it was supposed to. Still haven't fixed the horn and the brakes are quite noisy when applied (rusty rubbing noises) in spite of having cleaned out the drums when doing the brake cylinders, but I may persevere with them and see how they go when I get on the road. There is also a very slight blow on the exhaust at the joint under the passenger footwell.
Driving was fun. The gearchange is better than I remember and the clutch seems to have eased off a little. Lots of body roll when pushed and I may have to bend the indicator stalk slightly to stop my knuckles brushing it and operating the indicators, but again, pretty good.
Hopefuly another weekend will see us in the hands of the MOT man.
 
Just a quick post, I'll write more later, to say that I have now bought BarnFind's restoration project and driven her back to Somerset.

So I am in effect hi-jacking this thread so as to continue to record the project until complete. Queries I have I will put elsewhere on the forum and note the results here, and look forward to not only finishing the car off but also to hopefully receiving helpful advice from forum members along the way!

Chris
 
Well finally the weather has been nice today, a chill in the wind but wall to wall sunshine and warm in it, so I was able to do a bit on the car.

Now, for reasons I won't go into, other than that's what she sounded like bombing down the M6/M5 at 100k's, we have called her Bee. (The speedo is graduated in mph and kph, it just seems more natural to work off the kph scale somehow).

It was really strange how we came to buy Bee. She appeared on E-Bay on the Friday, we looked at the listing on and off over the weekend and on the Monday morning and at lunch time Monday decided to phone up the seller, only to find it was no-longer listed. I phoned anyway and found the seller in a quandry; a buyer had viewed and test drove it in the morning, left a deposit and then a while later phone back to say he had changed his mind. So I stepped in and bit the bullet and bought it over the phone, unseen. At that time I had not connected the car with the BarnFind Project. We drove up on the Thursday to nearly at Blackburn, a long way from Somerset, and completed the deal and proceeded to drive her back.

Thinking that the drive down the M6 was very likely the stiffest test Bee had had in over 20 years I was happy to trundle along in the inside lane at 50-55mph with the truckers with my wife riding shotgun on me behind in the daily drive, our Scenic II. From Manchester to Stoke the M6 was horrific, the middle lane nose to tail with very big trucks, you needed feelers to judge the gap between some of them, you couldn't get into the centre lane if you'd wanted to, very intimidating! But I was happy in the nearside lane; if anything happened to Bee it was reassuring to know I could bale out onto the hard shoulder without dicing with big trucks! Gradually the road cleared a bit, we upped speed a bit, and then the M6 Toll road was bliss - empty! And so to the M42 and M5. Eventually we made Gloucester where we were stopping with my daughter for the night, and babysitting the next day.

The next day I went and checked the tyres more closely. Three did not appear to have a date on them and the fourth seemed to be dated 1986! So new rubber was called for as although the tyres seemed in good nick, no cracks, good tread, but hard rubber and I did not fancy any more M5 stuff on perhaps nearly 30 year old tyres, and new ones were obtained, see the thread 'Inner tubes', but I am now left with inner tubes on tubeless tyres and will have to get the inner tubes off shortly.

We left Gloucester about 5pm next day, still light but getting dark, and it soon started raining. The rain became torrential it seemed, very dark, couldn't see a thing behind except pairs of headlights, at what distance behind was hard to tell, some lights were exceedingly bright - do they really need to be that bright, they are more like full beam than dipped some of them - moving out to overtake slow traffic was a bit of a lottery, no one would let you out, sometimes my wife managed to get out behind me and so give me an easy out, but it was really a nightmare! I was so pleased to pull off the M5 at Taunton, I can tell you.

Then I experienced the world of 1970's headlights. Like, even if I had full beams on, NO-ONE flashed me! And I could just see the road if there was no-one else on it! There must be a halogen bulb I can fit! But we got home in one piece and she did very well, bombing down the motorways at 100k's. The new tyres were a tremendous difference, the vibration and hard ride went along with the hard rubber and she felt so much better.

Next day my wife had a go. She struggled with the very hard stiff clutch, the gear lever was not spring loaded which made gear changing harder than it should have been, and the throttle was not well set up. I had coped, but she didn’t and it was not a fault on her part - the set up was not correct. Then we struggled up a steep hill and the oil pressure light came on or so we thought, at that time we didn’t realise that it was also a high coolant temp light too, which gave us an anxious moment or two.

So we parked her up and left her until today. Now, before someone says I’m being unfair to Barn Find, or worse, let me state the facts. If you look back over the last 11 pages of this thread you will see that Barn Find concentrated on getting the chassis and bodywork sorted which he did. The main reason we bought this was the state of the chassis and bodywork, along with the good interior. You will also see that Barn Find only worked on the mechanicals enough to get the car running satisfactorily, which it did - 250+ miles down the motorway proves that. And in the handing over notes which came with the car he clearly states he is passing on the project to someone else for completion. And I have also talked to Barn Find on the phone and found him most helpful, and my wife also talked to Paul who did most of the welding too. So in no way what follows in this and other posts reflects any criticism of Barn Find whatsoever, in fact I am so grateful for what he has done. I am OK, sort of, on the mechanicals, out of my depth really on the rot/bodywork side of things!

So, today was a beaut, and a session on Bee called. I felt that although she ran well, it was not well enough, she was lacking power even if it was only an 845cc engine. I had gone from head off and pistons out for new rings in my mind, to just a head job, to now check the tappets and see how she goes. Would check out the carb and ignition as well.

The rocker cover had been leaking oil so a new joint was called for anyway. When I checked the tappets - and it was the first time I had done this job using the Renault method (one exhaust open, check/adjust one inlet and one exhaust, see their manual) it was really good and so easy. I also found that the tappets were rattling good fits, the clearances were huge, and were reset to 6thou inlet and 8thou exhaust. The carb float level was checked - ok, as was the initial throttle opening. The plug gaps were checked - one was a bit high, and the points set to 16thou. I know this may not be correct, but it is as per the book and my dwell meter is in France. I also had a look at the drive shaft inner rubber bellows, next to the gearbox. These had been leaking oil and I don’t want to have to change them, so I checked that they were in the correct position, that they had the bands on, and put cable ties on them as well. Not sure about this, not happy, any advice out there? It is possible that the gearbox oil level is too high, will check that out.

Boxed the whole lot up, reset the throttle cable (and the choke) but couldn’t get it like the manual says with the 2mm compression on the throttle spring, but it is a whole lot better. Then I turned the key and she fired up immediately, settled down and sounded very much like a R4 should. Still have to do a test run so see how she goes then, but it was very encouraging. There is an exhaust leak at the join between the manifold and the first section of pipe, in the engine bay, not surprising really given the amount of repair paste there, and the high temp alarm light came on when just on idle which was worrying seeing as how it was now getting cold in the evening air - will check the thermostat as it may be not opening enough. Where can one get a new thermostat and new water hoses for a ’78 TL?

Anyway, that was enough for today and I’m very pleased with the progress made. Will change the coolant next and flush through, and flush the engine oil out and change that and the gearbox oil too. Will also set the carb as per the Renault manual too when I can. My gas analyser is in France - where else! - but can't trust the MOT reading of 0.19%, surely the decimal point is wrong? - so will set it to run as well as I can without instruments. At least I have a tacho here get the idle speed correct!

Chris
 
Great story and I seem to be doing exactly the sam only getting my car the other day. I took the rocker cover off only to find it covered in glupy oil just like the bad picture in the oil change guide.

What are you using to flush your oil out. Is there an additive for this to do a basic clean without a full strip down. As i need to get this car on the road to pass its CT and then register it in my name.

Keep up the updates.
 
Hi, I am going to use an engine oil flush that I bought from Tool Station in the UK, Halfords and motor factors also stock similar products, there seems to be several manufacturers. Basically, you get the oil up to temperature, add the flush, let her idle for 5 minutes and then drain off. It is claimed to 'clean' the engine oil system, presumably by dissolving all the gunge, freeing up piston rings etc, and then you just drain it all out and add fresh oil and a new filter, a new filter would be essential, you wouldn't want any of that stuff left in the system I would have thought.

You going for a CT sounds as if you are in France, in which case I would look in the supermarkets in the motoring section for a suitable product, they should stock something especially one of the larger supermarkets, the supermarkets seem to stock quite good ranges of motoring stuff over in France.

For the cooling system I had been thinking of using a chemical cooling system flush, but am put off a bit by the fact that it may do more harm than good in the short term by taking off stuff that is actually keeping the system tight and so exposing leaks, so I will just use tap water for the flushes until it runs clear and then antifreeze again and distilled water. In France you seem to be only able to buy the antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor already mixed up in the correct strength, which seems so sensible. France is a funny place I find, some things make you want to tear your hair out and other things make you think why on earth doesn't the UK do/use this, it's so good!
 
Today I was able to do a bit more on Bee, having got up to date on my other jobs and it being a nice 'warmish' sunny day.

I decided to drain the cooling water system down and recharge with anti-freeze together with fitting one of Mr Kenlowe's cooling fans. I am not a fan of engine driven cooling fans, if that doesn't sound too Irish, as they seem to let you down when you really need them (when stuck in traffic in hot weather) and provide too much cooling when you don't need it, like bombing down the motorway in winter.

Before I drained down I thought I'd check what was in the system. The sample from the header bottle was clear as the proverbial mountain steam, in blue, whilst the radiator sample was brown with floaters (or bits in, if it was OJ from the supermarket!). Hummn, I thought, odd. I have photos but don't know how to include them at the moment! Both samples were up to strength though.

Drained down the engine block and that was as per the header tank, clear as the proverbial. The rad drain water was all brown and dirty. How could this be I thought? I have driven this car down from deepest Lancashire to deepest Somerset at 50 to 60 mph down the motorways with no flow through the rad? Seems like it, seems like the flow of cold air over the block and through the heater matrix was enough, given it was chilly outside at the time, to keep the engine from overheating. So I took out the thermostat and into the kitchen in a pan of water over the hob with a max/min thermometer to check it out. When the temp got to 100 deg.C with not a sign of the thermostat opening I decided it was definitely stuck shut, or donald as we engineers would say, I phoned Renault in Yeovil and ordered a new one. Good news, they are still available (it is a 1978 motor) and will be there at o'crack'double-o on Thursday, bad news it is 20 notes. Ho Humn, life's a bitch at times. Anyway, new thermostat ordered, old fan and cowl out, new fan going in tomorrow, and we'll see how she goes.

Chris
 
Hi Chris, I changed Felicia's coolant today and found it had a lot of heavy red sediment. I think it was Moroccan sand and not rust, but I can't be sure and that doesn't explain how it gets in the system... It's a bit late to tell you this but you can do a pressure flush by connecting a hose-pipe directly to one of the drain holes in the engine. You'd be amazed by the gunk that comes out, even when an ordinary pour-through comes out clean.

Sounds you got a lucky escape there with your stuck thermostat! Felicia had the opposite problem - hers was missing! Put a new one in today and now the windscreen blower gets hot even in the coldest weather :)
 
Had a happy day yesterday fitting the new Kenlowe fan. That bit was easy. Actually, all of it was easy, the only problems were deciding where to site the controller and where to pick up the power supply from.

The controller needed a position away from heat and out of the way of any water and road dirt that may fly in the engine bay, but on the left hand side of the engine bay as it had to be near the water inlet to the radiator. In the end I decided to fit it on the inner wing opposite the air filter and hope it was far away from the exhaust. The power supply I picked up from the supply to the coil, that way it's controlled by the ignition switch, I'll see how that goes.

Picked up the thermostat today, so will fit that after lunch, try and set the controller to cut the fan in at the right temp, and give her a run.

Worked out how to add photos with the help of mojobaby, but not yet how to add comments by each photo, so in order we have:
Sample coolant from header tank
Sample coolant from radiator
Original fan and cowl - clutter between engine and radiator, how do you see to time the engine?
New fan fitted
Nice and clear now between engine and radiator
Fan controller on inner wing behind the air filter.

Chris
 
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A good afternoon. With guidance from Tripyrenees, fixed the handbrake lever setup, one of the springs was not connected to the hooked arm. Then sorted out the broken spring on the gear change linkage so it is now spring loaded to 3rd/4th. Fitted the new thermostat, tested it and set the fan cut-in temp with the help of the kitchen food thermometer but don't tell Senior Management, so another successful day "getting there!".

Still need to do an engine flush and oil change, again, and change the gearbox oil, and the engine carb needs adjusting a bit. Noticed one of the bonnet hinges needs a bolt, I have an electric screen wash to fit, there is an exhaust blow on the first joint after the manifold (would ideally like to change that section of pipe, looks a bit bashed about), and all the doors want setting up to close better plus some of the door seal wants re gluing on, and I need to check the earth on the fuel tank as that might be why the fuel gauge reads intermittently, so a fair bit still to do before she goes to France!
 
Hello Chris, tell me to mind my own business but if it's possible it's always better to fit an electric fan on the back of a radiator so the air is sucked through the rad. It does look like space is a bit tight though I'll admit. Are you going to Thenay in July?
 
Hi Cornish4, the fan is a 'blow' fan, not a 'suck' fan, so it fits on the front of the rad as per Kenlowe's instructions. But I know what you mean, but I also am pleased to have the clear space between engine and radiator. What is Thenay?
 
Ah, I understand what are saying and the fan looks good n close so it should do the job well. Thenay is the place in the Loire Valley where the 4L International meeting is held, I've been a couple of times, the last one in 2011 was the 50th anniversary of the 4. Over 1200 cars there that weekend. The dates for this years event are 5th 6th 7th of July. Check out the events section on the forum for more info. Regards Brian.
 
Brian, the fan has a bit cut away from the top and bottom parts of the surround, in way of the top and bottom header protrusions, so that it does fit very close onto the radiator matrix. It is also, Kenlowe say, a high output fan, so it should do the business.

I may well be in France in July, will check out the event section of the forum, it might be a fun idea!
Chris
 
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