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Heater cover removal for 1986 R4GTL

Paul Narramore

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840
Location
Aylesford, Kent
Simple one this although it has me stumped - how do I remove the heater cover? The radio cover is off. I have three 10mm A/F nuts, two self tappers and the heater knob off, but the cover won't budge. I've been under there with a powerful head torch but can find no missed nuts or self tappers.

Why am I removing it? The tiniest of tiny coolant weeps which may turn out to be the heater valve or the hose clips attaching the two hoses to the heater matrix.

Now if I could get the damned thing off, and RTFM doesn't apply here, as Haynes as usual is trying to detail too many models.

(Later) Make that five 10mm A/F nuts. I am able to pull the cover away a little way sufficiently to confirm that the heater valve itself is weeping. But I still can't completely pull the cover away to properly get to the heater valve.

(Even later) Idea. Partially drain coolant, then undo heater hose clips from the water pump then it might come away.
 
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I vaguely remember this pain-in-the-rectum some while ago (bearing in mind the dementia); I found that there was a flap and plastic rod connected to the front cover and the fixed section, that needed unclipping (from somewhere)..... I only found out where once I had broken it. And I have now forgotten where.
I did fix it again (my only redeeming party-trick), so the world will not end. New O-ring on my heater-knob shaft helped with the smelly leaks, but cleanliness is next to Godliness around that brassy area as well (- insert lots of inuendo here -).
I resorted to Ce-Lit (flakey coolant additive) when complete stripping and re-sealing of the heater matrix parts still left a lingering whiff.
 
Adam, As I feared undoing the opposite ends of the heater hoses made no difference and I still was unable to remove the cover. It wasn't the hose clip but the gasket for the heater valve that was weeping. As I began to undo the tiny 7mmA/F nuts, one stud sheared inspite of spraying with WD40. Bloody awful struggling to work under there, sweat running into eyes, beam of light from head torch pointing in the wrong direction. With no advice and the hopeless Haynes to swear at, I drained the heater matrix and dried the leaking flange and then (Dreadful Bodge Warning) smeared silicone sealant around the area. I hated ding that but needs must. Again it took ages to replace the heater cover but at least the nuts and screws are nicely greased for the next attempt.

(Later) So after a short test drive what happened? Well the bodge has failed and the floor is awash with coolant. This is really frustrating as I know what is wrong but simply cannot remove the heater cover. I had the required number of nuts and screws and removed the heater knob but something ain't right and is stuck solidly somewhere around the top of the heater 'trumpets'. AND unless I can get another secondhand heater matric, I am faced with a hefty bill for one from der Franzose. Help!

(Even later) Going back through old threads it seems that Petak recommends removal of the entire dashboard as well as the heater cover. Really? Also that Spanish ebay is the place to find heater matrixes and valves, although there aren't any there at the moment.
 
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oh bad luck Paul; around 1981 the design changed aparently - mine is a 1984, maybe yours is an earlier one? I recommend a paper gasket (I bought some sheets of various thickness of gasket paper a few decades ago, am unsure if they are still available - or maybe you could butcher a spare bigger gasket with a scalpel?). I did replace the paper gasket on the heater valve (with a hand-carved one), but also stripped & polished the valve and replaced the O-ring on the shaft which was leaking, partly because of corrosion I think.
My footwell/screen vent lever is up high - well above the heat knob - and I think it was this system that was snagging for me; the control rod goes down to the footwell flap and to knee-high for the screen vents.
I fear I can't remember how/whether I completely pulled out the cover, but I managed to get it out far enough to remove the matrix & repair my breakages. I remember one hose being a struggle to get to! Maybe the one with the bleed Tee on it - can't pull it through the bulkhead.
I can see that the screen-vent trumpets go way up, but I don't think they screw to anything up there. I can also see that removing the dash leaves the heater cover more conveniently exposed, but that is another job on top.
I managed to peel back the heater matrix end-cap metal fingers and remove the metal core; then clean & silicone-seal the rubber rings & mating faces around each end and squeeze the tabs back around. I doesn't leak now. I did it this way after seeing the price of a replacement matrix!
 
My car is a 1986. No, now that I've sheered off one of the studs, the matrix must come out especially as I cannot gain access to the second nut (the stud of which I'm bound to snap too). I might even remove the front seats as access is awful. So unless I am advised otherwise, its steering wheel and dashboard off next.
 
Well after an afternoon (hottest day of the year) of grunting and sweating, I finally got the heater matrix out. After an age and the removal of the steering wheel, I managed to get the dashboard raised sufficiently to get the heater cover out far enough to get to the matrix. The Y-shaped heater ducts were trapped behind the wiper motor, and I feel it will be a stroke of luck if they go back the same way. Lots of wires behind the radio, I left these in place because I just knew I'd forget where each went. There was still a lot of tugging as the occasional wire lost it's crimped connector. The hose clamps for the heater hoses were those dreadful 'twisting type' ones reminiscent of the keys to sardine cans and the only way to remove these was by destroying them. One took 45mins.

Once out I could have a close look at the heater matric and brass valve. Impossible to remove the M5x10 bolts to the valve - these have square heads which slide into recesses in the plastic edges of the matrix. I doubt these are available so may cobble something up from hex. hd. bolts. The brass valve came up nicely however the minute M3 grub screw again had to be destroyed to dismantle the valve. Even my trusty blow torch failed to budge it. So drill and tap a new M3 hole? Square headed bolts? Will the matrix hold water under pressure? I managed to avoid dinging the cooling fins (mostly). Proper Jubilee clips on the heater hoses when it all goes back. Behind where the matrix sat, is a muddy ledge where the steel mesh sits. In the past rainwater got trapped in there, only to enter the car. The incontinence of this car beggars belief.

Will I get it all back again? Should I swop the matrix and valve for a new one? Let us see. (No images as there are plenty in the Archives).
 
Well done Paul - sounds like it was a giant test of patience! The M3 grub screw may be possible to drill out, but is that in the brass valve body? If so, you may be lucky to drill it out neatly, as the drill bit may want to 'fall' sideways into the softer brass. If necessary you could open up to M4?
The muddly ledge - could that be muddy not from rain, but from coolant? Check for stains around the matrix edges - even a tiny stain could indicate a point of weepage, and if streaks then where is the top of the streak? Rain probably won't be the same colour stain....
I don't recall the sqaure-headed bolts, but I guess they used them to locate the heads? Hex sounds like the way to go, or file/gring them to fit.
Best of luck - be slow and use a magnifying glass!
 
The tiny M5 square headed bolts (2) slide into recesses either side of the heater valve inlet with the square heads in the recesses and the treads facing outwards, and I had to muller these to free off the valve. The M3 grub screen again was damaged (saw off) and is filed down. Hopefully a standard O-ring will suffice although the original appears to be of square section rubber. It's probably sensible to simply replace the matrix and valve as I wouldn't want to do this again in a hurry however they both aren't in too bad condition and replacements are expensive. Of course I could attempt to pressure the matrix (somehow) as shown on various Utube videos.
 
Well, now you know how to do the matrix, dashboard etc removal, next time will be half the effort and half the time, especially with freed-off nuts & bolts.
I'd be inclined to clean everything off really well & if possible reassemble with new O-ring, grub-screw, machine screws (squared-off heads) and gasket and to try it out. Floods should be avoided at least, and if all is spotlessly clean you may find either 1) no leaks at all (hurrah!), or 2) a small and identifiable leak in either matric, pipe join or valve. At which point, a decision could be made on repair/replace. It's just my way of doing things, and it would depend if the car was a second-car or not; it seemed to have worked for me.
 
I would of bypassed the heater matrix under the bonnet and waited till we got cooler weather and the heater needed again
 
Gets cold crawling around on your kness on the driveway trying to reconnect and repair a heater matrix in November....
 
It's nearly done now with just an O-ring to get today. Proper jubilee clips instead of those nasty twist-type whatsits. Even painted the rusty rims of the matrix . Drilled and tapped M3 hole for new SS grub screw. New gasket made from 1.5mm butyl.

When it's all done I can get back to concentrating on the overheating problem. The mechanic who's having a look at my Honda GL1000 has one of those clever electronic thermal devices
 
IMG_8935.JPG Wickses' on a Bank Holiday Monday. O-rings in thicknesses of 1/16" and 1/8" only. My O-ring is 2.6mm thick. Get home, assemble heater valve with old O-ring, gasket with sealant, new bolts and Nyloc nuts. Everything scrupulously clean. Add a tiny amount of water into valve and............a tiny tiny weep (and this time it wasn't me). Very difficult to detect where weep is coming from but my guess is the gasket. Tighten nuts up just a touch and leave valve until the morning. I feel some RadWeld will finally seal it.

(Next day) Removed valve, cleaned the Red Hermatite sealant from everything, this time used some Stag Wellseal, allegedly a sealant used by Rolls Royce. No leaks this morning. Everything ready to go back in but what Jubilee clips I have are too small so further delay as the wife has the other car.

(Later) I after spending the entire afternoon struggling to replace the heater cover and matrix, I gave up the unequal struggle in disgust. Haynes is utterly hopeless in that it simply says "Replace as opposite to disassembly". Everything seems to be an interference fit with ominous sounds of electrical blocks coming apart and the crack noises of protesting plastic. I had wrongly thought that the matrix was pushed into the small 'box' in the bulkhead when in fact it should go against the heater and all of it's plastic odds & ends. And then the bother of tightening the new jubilee clips. By undoing the clips at the water pump ends, I could drag the hoses, the protesting hoses back into the car. Then more struggles as I tried to shove everything forwards and crushing everything behind the heater cover.

(Today) More struggles with the head torch and perspiration stinging my eyes and cramp in my legs, and then I realised I hadn't poked the bleed tube through the hole in the bulkhead. By midday everything is back in place, and miracle upon miracle I hadn't lost anything. Ignition on, blimey the warning lights are all there, and engine fires up. Hello no indicators, hello no No7 fuse as it's blown. Fit new fuse and try again, nope, it also blows. Hello, there's a short length of brown wire not attached to anything. Try the heater fan. Silence. It must be an earth wire to the heater fan but how to get to the heater motor? Jesus Christ! It's all got to come out again, hasn't it? The dashboard is once again all out and flopping around and I haven't a clue how to get to the heater motor. Christ, I'm beginning to HATE this bloody car. A comparatively simple job has taken a couple of days so far and with still no signs of it being completed. Lots of horrid joint blocks for the radio connections and strange non-standard wires with unglued electrical tape.
 
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After more perseverance, I got the indicators/hazard lights working possibly by chance, although I did pull a couple of connecting blocks behind the dash apart and spray them with Servicol IPA170. Anyway they work. The heater fan? Well the fuses kept blowing so I substituted a 16A fuse and it burst into life. Yes, don't remind me, I know........

Started the engine and coolant seen dribbling into the car in spite of all of the work, so....

a. with all of the shoving and pushing, a connection has parted, or

b. the valve has parted company a little.

Solution. Turn heater off and ignore until I acquire a new heater radiator and valve. I've had enough (of her) for the time being. The 'Buck & Spade Run' to Ramsgate for old cars is on Sunday. Mr Mick?
 
Well persevered Paul - you'll soon be able to strip the dash etc out in your sleep! Could the odds & ends of wires be tidied up or re-routed/lengthened to improve the safety/reliability/fit of the wiring?
 
Oh I will. Anything to make life easier in the future. Tomorrow I shall bypass the matrix as Mr. Reno suggested earlier as I won't need the heater for a few months. I hate to admit defeat but a new matrix and valve is almost £200.(gulp)
 
Have you ever watched a movie with a poor ending? Or is this like a TV series and I have to wait months for the next episode?
Please finish this Paul, its been my daily fix for the past 10 days:)
 
Best I have a look and see what I've got next time I am up my Renault 4 storage garage
Must of been one on the rodeo I pulled to pieces
 
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