HOT or not?

  1. JonathanT

    JonathanT Not normal for Norfolk

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Wymondham Norfolk
    I shall reveal all later :o but I have the good fortune to acquire a lovely GTL engine in amazing condition. Reading past threads about the fabled Hennessy Hot up kit I'm interested in doing same/similar .

    I don't want to go completely mad because the vague and distant target for said engine is a Renault 4 for my son. Made to look similar to the East Africa Rally entry. He will still be a young driver so a proper HOT PIRI PIRI engine would be impossible insurance money.
    Plan is same starting point as WOMBLE (a GTL) so I don't have to declare a massive engine change or heavy duty modification.

    Looking at an R5 manifold carb pump etc - what would you guys recommend ?
     
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  2. harbourseal

    harbourseal Enthusiast

    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Breda The Netherlands
    Very hot.
    I recommend a Deauville spaghetti exhaust manifold a Renault 12 inlet manifold and Solex SEIA carburetor all on a phase 1 renault 5 cleon 689/7 10 engine.
    At the moment I'm working on this configuration. I know that the engine with a 32mm carb gives you some more umpff.
    With the Deauville exhaust manifold it will be faster.
    http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/threads/hotting-up-my-f6.8225/
     
  3. JonathanT

    JonathanT Not normal for Norfolk

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Wymondham Norfolk
    Yes I've been reading your thread ... My engine is a 688 so less umph - thinking milder like polished R5 manifold balanced crank etc
    Yours certainly will go well by the looks of it. In my junk I have a lovely exhaust manifold for an Austin Seven special that's clean sweeping lines - prob worth a bob or two
     
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  4. harbourseal

    harbourseal Enthusiast

    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Breda The Netherlands
    Looks nice. Is that an early GTL engine? I Think you can just plump it in as it is. Maybe do the jets and have a go at it.
     
  5. JonathanT

    JonathanT Not normal for Norfolk

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Wymondham Norfolk
    Same as GTL yes but intended for something else - to be revealed!
     
  6. harbourseal

    harbourseal Enthusiast

    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Breda The Netherlands
    Well its is a 35 HP engine, the complete reveal is for you.:clapping:
     
  7. JonathanT

    JonathanT Not normal for Norfolk

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Wymondham Norfolk
    Anyone any other suggestions for a mild (by Harbourseals standards) Tune up?
     
  8. harbourseal

    harbourseal Enthusiast

    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Breda The Netherlands
    Try to find a Phase 1 R5 manifold put on a 32mm zenith or solex carburettor and find a R5 rocker cover.
    Optional:
    Take some weight of the flywheel and have it balanced on the crankshaft.
    Swap the camshaft for one from a R5 or one from an original F6 engine.
    Oops going overboard again:ashamed:
     
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  9. Cornish4

    Cornish4 Le Dazzleur

    Messages:
    1,285
    Location:
    Falmouth
    Electronic ignition is a good mod, more responsive and more reliable. You will need a suitable Ducellior distributor, as the Femsa dizzy can't be modified. The EI kit I have used is sold by Aldon, the part number is EP141, and retails for around £145. Well worth the cost. No more burnt out points and dodgy condensers, and an ideal companion to the bigger carb.
     
    JonathanT likes this.
  10. JonathanT

    JonathanT Not normal for Norfolk

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Wymondham Norfolk
    Hi Cornish - yes thank you I fitted electronic ignition to Womble ( A little add-on device) I agree it totally improved the performance.
    I will do this along with the harbour seals suggestion of changing the carb and manifold.
    I'm hoping to do a video at the weekend. I've never put a video on here before but it's going to feature taking the Rocker box cover off and revealing the interior. I think it might be a surprise And you will see why I wouldn't want to change the camshaft. But A balance up would certainly be a good thing along with hardened valve seats for unleaded .
     
    jjad likes this.
  11. JonathanT

    JonathanT Not normal for Norfolk

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Wymondham Norfolk
    A moment later ..... So has anyone got for sale :

    A Phase 1 R5 manifold put on a 32mm zenith or solex carburettor and a R5 rocker cover?:scared:
     
  12. Cornish4

    Cornish4 Le Dazzleur

    Messages:
    1,285
    Location:
    Falmouth
    Hi Jonathan, sorry I can't help with that, but I noticed you mentioned hardened valve seats. Being an aluminium head it has hardened seats already, and it is of course quite happy running on unleaded fuel. It must be higher octane though, 97 or 98.
     
  13. JonathanT

    JonathanT Not normal for Norfolk

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Wymondham Norfolk
    Really?!
    It does make sense but I had this done to Womble a while back - will look into it thank you
     
  14. Cornish4

    Cornish4 Le Dazzleur

    Messages:
    1,285
    Location:
    Falmouth
    Well, I think I have that right Jonathan, but of course if not, I'm sure someone out there in Renault 4 land will correct me.:rolleyes:
     
  15. JonathanT

    JonathanT Not normal for Norfolk

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Wymondham Norfolk
    Hi Cornish I've been to see Mike4GTL today (Meridian engineering ) At his superb workshop. It's a real Alladins cave. With old engine parts galore, old signs and a roasting hot stove. Mike says you're right. But the seats need to be (I'm guessing) a harder grade to last with unleaded in the long run. As it will ultimately be in a car that's well used (potentially) I'll get Mike to do this work and balance the engine too. Mike also made mention of Malcolm's car which he has driven which has a 5 speed gearbox - thinking I'll look into that too now :rolleyes:
     
    jjad likes this.
  16. Cornish4

    Cornish4 Le Dazzleur

    Messages:
    1,285
    Location:
    Falmouth
    Hi Jonathan, it's always best to clarify these points, and I'm sure that's a move in the right direction, to have even harder seats fitted. I've never met Mike, but I gather he knows his stuff.There are two schools of thought when it comes to a 5 speed conversion, but I do know that the chassis has to be modified to accommodate the slightly longer box. Malcoms car has a Gordini engine so it's not exactly standard, but Derek of Renospeed also has a Gordini engined car which still has a 4 speed gearbox and it goes like the proverbial s- - t of a shovel. 5 speed gearbox with 1108cc engine I'm not so sure it's necessary, but worth doing your homework about.
     
    JonathanT likes this.
  17. harbourseal

    harbourseal Enthusiast

    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Breda The Netherlands
    I'm afraid that a 5 speed gearbox won't give you extra power on a 1108cc engine.
    It was designed for a 1400cc engine. You don't get that kind of HP from your hotted up tractor engine.
    Besides it won't fit without redesigning the front crossbar.
     
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  18. mr-reno-139

    mr-reno-139 AKA Paul Cunningham

    Messages:
    1,688
    Location:
    lancing west sussex england
    2 versions of 5 sp ha1 box
    Using 5ts or 5 tx 1400 will rev high and noisy cruising but better acceleration
    Using 5tl/gtl designed for 1108 is better for economy and less revs cruising and is called high ratio
    If you bolt this to standard r4 1108 5 th gear not much use as car not enough power to use 5 th gear on hills
    I've posted loads about this many times with gearbox ID codes which I can't remember now
     
  19. Cornish4

    Cornish4 Le Dazzleur

    Messages:
    1,285
    Location:
    Falmouth
    There you are Jonathan, I was pretty sure that was the case. No point in fitting a 5 speed box to an 1108cc engine, but improving its performance with a few subtle modifications is a good idea, to make it a more usable everyday car. And more fun of course.
     
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  20. petak

    petak Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,050
    Location:
    Vodice, Croatia
    There are two 5 speed gearboxes (HA1-01 and HA1-03) that can be put on R4 engine.
    Difference between these two gearboxes is in final drive.
    Gearbox that you need to find has same final drive as R4 gearbox (HA1-01)

    I was calculating (teoreticly) speed in different gears at certain rpms for HAO-146 (R4 GTL gearbox) and HA1-01 gerabox.

    Here are ratios for HA1 gerbox

    HA1 gearbox ratios.jpg



    Here are calculations for HAO gerabox according to rpms and km/h
    R4 - HAO mjenjač.jpg


    Here is same calculation for HA1 gearbox
    R4 - HA1 mjenjač.jpg

    Theoretically you can gain only if your driving speed is around 90-100-110km/h
    R4 with HAO gearbox is running at rpms 3174 (90km/h) - 3527 (100km/h) - 3880 (110km/h)
    R4 with HA1 gearbox is running at rpms 2570 (90km/h) - 2850 (100km/h) - 3140 (110km/h)

    Looking at these numbers i would say that there is big benefit from HA1 gearbox for pleasant and smooth drive, possibly to petrol consumption but not for racing up an R4

    Sorry for excel sheets in Croatian but numbers are the same in English

    Personally, if i manage to get to one HA1-01 gearbox i would try to fit it in my R4 to see are these theoretical number somewhere near real numbers. If they are it would meant much to me as my daily drive is at open road so 80-90-100km/h speed are normal and desirable.
     
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