HOT or not?

[JonathanT]

I shall reveal all later but I have the good fortune to acquire a lovely GTL engine in amazing condition. Reading past threads about the fabled Hennessy Hot up kit I'm interested in doing same/similar .

I don't want to go completely mad because the vague and distant target for said engine is a Renault 4 for my son. Made to look similar to the East Africa Rally entry. He will still be a young driver so a proper HOT PIRI PIRI engine would be impossible insurance money.
Plan is same starting point as WOMBLE (a GTL) so I don't have to declare a massive engine change or heavy duty modification.

Looking at an R5 manifold carb pump etc - what would you guys recommend ?

 

[harbourseal]

Very hot.
I recommend a Deauville spaghetti exhaust manifold a Renault 12 inlet manifold and Solex SEIA carburetor all on a phase 1 renault 5 cleon 689/7 10 engine.
At the moment I'm working on this configuration. I know that the engine with a 32mm carb gives you some more umpff.
With the Deauville exhaust manifold it will be faster.
http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/threads/hotting-up-my-f6.8225/

 

[JonathanT]

Yes I've been reading your thread ... My engine is a 688 so less umph - thinking milder like polished R5 manifold balanced crank etc
Yours certainly will go well by the looks of it. In my junk I have a lovely exhaust manifold for an Austin Seven special that's clean sweeping lines - prob worth a bob or two

 

[harbourseal]

Looks nice. Is that an early GTL engine? I Think you can just plump it in as it is. Maybe do the jets and have a go at it.

 

[JonathanT]

Same as GTL yes but intended for something else - to be revealed!

 

[harbourseal]

Well its is a 35 HP engine, the complete reveal is for you.

 

[JonathanT]

Anyone any other suggestions for a mild (by Harbourseals standards) Tune up?

 

[harbourseal]

Try to find a Phase 1 R5 manifold put on a 32mm zenith or solex carburettor and find a R5 rocker cover.
Optional:
Take some weight of the flywheel and have it balanced on the crankshaft.
Swap the camshaft for one from a R5 or one from an original F6 engine.
Oops going overboard again

 

[Cornish4]

Electronic ignition is a good mod, more responsive and more reliable. You will need a suitable Ducellior distributor, as the Femsa dizzy can't be modified. The EI kit I have used is sold by Aldon, the part number is EP141, and retails for around £145. Well worth the cost. No more burnt out points and dodgy condensers, and an ideal companion to the bigger carb.

 

[JonathanT]

Electronic ignition is a good mod, more responsive and more reliable. You will need a suitable Ducellior distributor, as the Femsa dizzy can't be modified. The EI kit I have used is sold by Aldon, the part number is EP141, and retails for around £145. Well worth the cost. No more burnt out points and dodgy condensers, and an ideal companion to the bigger carb.

Hi Cornish - yes thank you I fitted electronic ignition to Womble ( A little add-on device) I agree it totally improved the performance.
I will do this along with the harbour seals suggestion of changing the carb and manifold.
I'm hoping to do a video at the weekend. I've never put a video on here before but it's going to feature taking the Rocker box cover off and revealing the interior. I think it might be a surprise And you will see why I wouldn't want to change the camshaft. But A balance up would certainly be a good thing along with hardened valve seats for unleaded .

 

[JonathanT]

A moment later ..... So has anyone got for sale :

A Phase 1 R5 manifold put on a 32mm zenith or solex carburettor and a R5 rocker cover?

 

[Cornish4]

Hi Jonathan, sorry I can't help with that, but I noticed you mentioned hardened valve seats. Being an aluminium head it has hardened seats already, and it is of course quite happy running on unleaded fuel. It must be higher octane though, 97 or 98.

 

[JonathanT]

Hi Jonathan, sorry I can't help with that, but I noticed you mentioned hardened valve seats. Being an aluminium head it has hardened seats already, and it is of course quite happy running on unleaded fuel. It must be higher octane though, 97 or 98.

Really?!
It does make sense but I had this done to Womble a while back - will look into it thank you

 

[Cornish4]

Well, I think I have that right Jonathan, but of course if not, I'm sure someone out there in Renault 4 land will correct me.

 

[JonathanT]

Hi Cornish I've been to see Mike4GTL today (Meridian engineering ) At his superb workshop. It's a real Alladins cave. With old engine parts galore, old signs and a roasting hot stove. Mike says you're right. But the seats need to be (I'm guessing) a harder grade to last with unleaded in the long run. As it will ultimately be in a car that's well used (potentially) I'll get Mike to do this work and balance the engine too. Mike also made mention of Malcolm's car which he has driven which has a 5 speed gearbox - thinking I'll look into that too now

 

[Cornish4]

Hi Jonathan, it's always best to clarify these points, and I'm sure that's a move in the right direction, to have even harder seats fitted. I've never met Mike, but I gather he knows his stuff.There are two schools of thought when it comes to a 5 speed conversion, but I do know that the chassis has to be modified to accommodate the slightly longer box. Malcoms car has a Gordini engine so it's not exactly standard, but Derek of Renospeed also has a Gordini engined car which still has a 4 speed gearbox and it goes like the proverbial s- - t of a shovel. 5 speed gearbox with 1108cc engine I'm not so sure it's necessary, but worth doing your homework about.

 

[harbourseal]

I'm afraid that a 5 speed gearbox won't give you extra power on a 1108cc engine.
It was designed for a 1400cc engine. You don't get that kind of HP from your hotted up tractor engine.
Besides it won't fit without redesigning the front crossbar.

 

[mr-reno-139]

2 versions of 5 sp ha1 box
Using 5ts or 5 tx 1400 will rev high and noisy cruising but better acceleration
Using 5tl/gtl designed for 1108 is better for economy and less revs cruising and is called high ratio
If you bolt this to standard r4 1108 5 th gear not much use as car not enough power to use 5 th gear on hills
I've posted loads about this many times with gearbox ID codes which I can't remember now

 

[Cornish4]

There you are Jonathan, I was pretty sure that was the case. No point in fitting a 5 speed box to an 1108cc engine, but improving its performance with a few subtle modifications is a good idea, to make it a more usable everyday car. And more fun of course.

 

[petak]

There are two 5 speed gearboxes (HA1-01 and HA1-03) that can be put on R4 engine.
Difference between these two gearboxes is in final drive.
Gearbox that you need to find has same final drive as R4 gearbox (HA1-01)

I was calculating (teoreticly) speed in different gears at certain rpms for HAO-146 (R4 GTL gearbox) and HA1-01 gerabox.

Here are ratios for HA1 gerbox





Here are calculations for HAO gerabox according to rpms and km/h


Here is same calculation for HA1 gearbox


Theoretically you can gain only if your driving speed is around 90-100-110km/h
R4 with HAO gearbox is running at rpms 2781 (90km/h) - 3090 (100km/h) - 3399 (110km/h)
R4 with HA1 gearbox is running at rpms 2570 (90km/h) - 2850 (100km/h) - 3140 (110km/h)

Looking at these numbers i would say that there is no big benefit from HA1 gearbox for pleasant and smooth drive, possibly to petrol consumption but not for racing up an R4

Sorry for excel sheets in Croatian but numbers are the same in English

Personally, if i manage to get to one HA1-01 gearbox i would try to fit it in my R4 to see are these theoretical number somewhere near real numbers. If they are it would meant much to me as my daily drive is at open road so 80-90-100km/h speed are normal and desirable.