Paul Narramore
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i have been reading various opinions about this product which amongst other claims reduces coolant temperatures. So the elixir of life or fools gold? Opinions seem to be mixed.
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AdamWilkes
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Seems marginal to me : http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/01/redline-waterwetter®-review/ but very tricky to measure hotspots-reduction and foaming-reduction benefits that Redline claim.
Surely the engine coolant thermostat dictates the coolant temperature, so their claims of coolant temperature-reductions are spurious?
There is also the waterless coolant option
Surely the engine coolant thermostat dictates the coolant temperature, so their claims of coolant temperature-reductions are spurious?
There is also the waterless coolant option
reidalpine
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Hi guys! I can of-course only tell you about my own experience with this stuff.
My Alpine V6 turbo with it's engine in the back always had problems soon as in low-moving traffic
temp went all to red on gauge-even with it's 2 large radiator-fans plus 2 fans in the motorbay. 0ne
for blowing in large amounts of fresh outside air,other to suck hot air out. Plus a manual switch to
override and start fans if I anticipated stop and go
still it would run hot.
After pouring in some water-wetter (it's supposed to be poured in a small amount at a time) it was
So much better that I never used the manual switch and the rad-fans were also seldom operating..
On my F4 I have the same experience,so for me it worked as promised.
Re. waterless-coolant it costs an arm and a leg but what stirred my attention is that it will make the
motor run at general higher temp all the time (as it is supposed to) boiling-point is about 180degree
Celsius.reports suggests it Does help re.shear overheating/boiling) but as said:runs at higher general
temp..........
Yes-the termostat dictates (to a point) the temp before opening for the secondary cooling-system to
cool the coolant in the rad,
water-wetter works to remove air-bubbles to avoid or minimize hot-spots -which usually is caused by air
being trapped usually at the highest part of the system.
what it actually does is getting rid of the surface-tension in the water/coolantand and as a result temp
goes down..
With water-wetter you pour in some,use car as normal to let it circulate whilst observing the temp.if more
needed pour in a little more untill you are where you need to be.
Waterless coolant is a bitch of a procedure,in addition to the Much higher cost.You have to empty and flush
system It needs to be near 100% water-free.Then you have to fill up with prep-fluid (as expensive as the
coolant itself) with that stuff in untill all traces of water is out you can fill up with the coolant...
Here Murphys law comes in..You can bet your a** it will spring a leak or someth'else happens so you have to
drain the system,filter it b4 filling back up.and if the car ends up for service or repair at local garage-even if
you tell them to.somehow they usually will drain and throw away that liquid gold (at 10 times the cost of Redline)
-Reid.
My Alpine V6 turbo with it's engine in the back always had problems soon as in low-moving traffic
temp went all to red on gauge-even with it's 2 large radiator-fans plus 2 fans in the motorbay. 0ne
for blowing in large amounts of fresh outside air,other to suck hot air out. Plus a manual switch to
override and start fans if I anticipated stop and go
still it would run hot.
After pouring in some water-wetter (it's supposed to be poured in a small amount at a time) it was
So much better that I never used the manual switch and the rad-fans were also seldom operating..
On my F4 I have the same experience,so for me it worked as promised.
Re. waterless-coolant it costs an arm and a leg but what stirred my attention is that it will make the
motor run at general higher temp all the time (as it is supposed to) boiling-point is about 180degree
Celsius.reports suggests it Does help re.shear overheating/boiling) but as said:runs at higher general
temp..........
Yes-the termostat dictates (to a point) the temp before opening for the secondary cooling-system to
cool the coolant in the rad,
water-wetter works to remove air-bubbles to avoid or minimize hot-spots -which usually is caused by air
being trapped usually at the highest part of the system.
what it actually does is getting rid of the surface-tension in the water/coolantand and as a result temp
goes down..
With water-wetter you pour in some,use car as normal to let it circulate whilst observing the temp.if more
needed pour in a little more untill you are where you need to be.
Waterless coolant is a bitch of a procedure,in addition to the Much higher cost.You have to empty and flush
system It needs to be near 100% water-free.Then you have to fill up with prep-fluid (as expensive as the
coolant itself) with that stuff in untill all traces of water is out you can fill up with the coolant...
Here Murphys law comes in..You can bet your a** it will spring a leak or someth'else happens so you have to
drain the system,filter it b4 filling back up.and if the car ends up for service or repair at local garage-even if
you tell them to.somehow they usually will drain and throw away that liquid gold (at 10 times the cost of Redline)
-Reid.
Paul Narramore
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Thanks Reid, I did recall you mentioning the stuff here in the past but searching the Archive failed to locate it. With my R4GTL and it's high temperatures once warmed up, I am concerned with next months trip to Thenay and Portugal and really don't want a good holiday spoiled. I am really running out of ideas as to how to lower the engine temperature. I've fitted a brand new radiator, a brand new water temp switch/sensor, flushed the system and poured in a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze/water mixture, bled the system again and again, cannot detect bubbles or smells in the expansion tank, fitted a manual rocker switch to manually turn on the fan, yet the temperature continues to rise to 100-105c. The timing was adjusted the other week when I fitted Aldon electronic ignition and the car runs well. I Fitted a water temperature gauge so I could actually see the temperature. WaterWetter is almost my last resort.
If I cannot get the engine to run at a more sensible level, I may have to do the trip in one of my other cars, a Citroen 2CV, and that would be like admitting defeat!
If I cannot get the engine to run at a more sensible level, I may have to do the trip in one of my other cars, a Citroen 2CV, and that would be like admitting defeat!
AdamWilkes
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Sorry if I've missed this in your conversations Paul, but have you fitted a new water pump? I am suspicious of the flow rate through your radiator etc.. and did a fan-flow test confirm that the fan is spinning the right way?
In your list of things you've replaced, you don't mention thermostat. If the thermo is only partially opening this would choke the coolant flow (sorry if this seems a bit obvious). I mention this because I have two identical Peugeot 405s, one runs at 83°C and the other at 60°C, and both have thermostats which appear, when tested, to be working normally — except they open at different temperatures. If yours happens to open at 100°C that would explain it. Heat it up in a saucepan of water and measure the water temperature when it opens. As a desperation measure I'd suggest removing the thermostat altogether if you're going to a hot country. Absolutely free coolant flow, at least.
Another possibility might be overheated intake air. I don't know about yours, but my R4 has a duct pipe which goes from a clip mounted on the exhaust outlet pipe to the air filter : in other words the intake air is warmed by the manifold (presumably for cold countries to avoid carburettor jet icing in cold weather). Completely superfluous (I removed mine).
Another possibility might be overheated intake air. I don't know about yours, but my R4 has a duct pipe which goes from a clip mounted on the exhaust outlet pipe to the air filter : in other words the intake air is warmed by the manifold (presumably for cold countries to avoid carburettor jet icing in cold weather). Completely superfluous (I removed mine).
reidalpine
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Paul Hi! seeing as you've flushed the system and got rid of all the goo that accumulates in there,that should be ok.
I've enlarged the hole for the exhaust-into the fender to get ot much as poss of the radiant-heat from exhaust,
I've got a sports-exhaust inthere and it went insanely hot-enlarging hole helps cooling that one quite a bit too.
If your reg.plate is covering the air-inlets in lower front of bonnet I'd move it (some had a small grille others didn't)
I have one orig.bracket for moving reg.pl to bumper if I could find it and if of interrest.Can bring to Thenay..
But first, I'd Def go for water-wetter it'll set you back £10-15(?) if that did what it done for me I'd get it Yesterday!
There's also a poss. to drill several holes 8large as you can) at rear-part of bonnet (where it rests agaiant the firewall)
you've got a couple of 90 degree angles where it won't show from outside but aids for better airflow under bonnet.
You've got the radiator-shroud in place? It looks all plasticy and naff but serves a purpose to direct airflow corrctly.
You're no newcomer so you've already checked that you have full flow through heater-register,so no blocking there.
Try that Redline first, I'd be surprised if that doesn't solve the issue! just remember to pour in a little at a time...-Reid.
I've enlarged the hole for the exhaust-into the fender to get ot much as poss of the radiant-heat from exhaust,
I've got a sports-exhaust inthere and it went insanely hot-enlarging hole helps cooling that one quite a bit too.
If your reg.plate is covering the air-inlets in lower front of bonnet I'd move it (some had a small grille others didn't)
I have one orig.bracket for moving reg.pl to bumper if I could find it and if of interrest.Can bring to Thenay..
But first, I'd Def go for water-wetter it'll set you back £10-15(?) if that did what it done for me I'd get it Yesterday!
There's also a poss. to drill several holes 8large as you can) at rear-part of bonnet (where it rests agaiant the firewall)
you've got a couple of 90 degree angles where it won't show from outside but aids for better airflow under bonnet.
You've got the radiator-shroud in place? It looks all plasticy and naff but serves a purpose to direct airflow corrctly.
You're no newcomer so you've already checked that you have full flow through heater-register,so no blocking there.
Try that Redline first, I'd be surprised if that doesn't solve the issue! just remember to pour in a little at a time...-Reid.
AdamWilkes
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I can't see why drilling holes and using water-wetter SHOULD be necessary - the standard car working correctly does (I assume!) cope adequately with hot weather like in summer Spain, Italy and France. There is therefore something amiss with Paul's car, we just need to find it - rather than treat the symptoms only. Just my opinion 
Paul Narramore
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Phew! It's hot in here!
1. Yes, the fan is spinning anti-clockwise and in the correct direction.
2. Thermostat - I wondered about this too so rather than testing it, I've got a new one on order. However the radiator and top hoses heat up pretty quickly so I doubt it is that to blame - unless it only PARTIALLY opens.
3. Water pump - I haven't changed the water pump and other than a small squeal when starting the engine sometimes, the noise fades very quickly. There is no apparently play with the water pump pulley nor leakage of coolant from the pump.
4. Number plate covering up air inlets? My 4GTL doesn't have those air inlets.
5. Radiator shrouds - Ditto. It doesn't have shrouds and I didn't know any 4s had shrouds.
6. Redline WaterWetter on order - £15.40ish.
Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. One thing springs to mind though. Can the wet liners move and don't these have gaskets or seals at their bases which fail to seal after some years? No water found in the oil though, no leaks anywhere else either.
1. Yes, the fan is spinning anti-clockwise and in the correct direction.
2. Thermostat - I wondered about this too so rather than testing it, I've got a new one on order. However the radiator and top hoses heat up pretty quickly so I doubt it is that to blame - unless it only PARTIALLY opens.
3. Water pump - I haven't changed the water pump and other than a small squeal when starting the engine sometimes, the noise fades very quickly. There is no apparently play with the water pump pulley nor leakage of coolant from the pump.
4. Number plate covering up air inlets? My 4GTL doesn't have those air inlets.
5. Radiator shrouds - Ditto. It doesn't have shrouds and I didn't know any 4s had shrouds.
6. Redline WaterWetter on order - £15.40ish.
Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. One thing springs to mind though. Can the wet liners move and don't these have gaskets or seals at their bases which fail to seal after some years? No water found in the oil though, no leaks anywhere else either.
reidalpine
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I see what you say Adam,but if there's a problem with a nice easy fix I'd go for that anyday! It wasn't like the 4L was the last word in
engineering,so if by lateral thinking Or simply banging with a hammer for that sake helps.get me the hammer..
take another typical R4-problem..Nothing to do with issue over,just for the sake of it.. Upper part of doors not staying snug so lets in noise
and rain and in the end they will develope cracks front and rear of bottom window line..there's quite a bit of air coming into the cabin by
vent or open windows there is a build-up of airpressure with no way of escape..So doors will bulge out.. due to simple fact they omitted an
exit vent somewhere..
I've made louvres hidden under the reg-plate on rear-hatch (F4) to let incoming air out; doors will stay tight and I get more ventilation if
needed.. also nice after taco-dinner
I only mentioned my simplistic solutions-if they would work for others is up for proof.
As mentioned water wetter aids to get rid of air-bubbles by way of removing surface-tension which again causes air-locks and hot spots which
for me was a problem. Opening up hole for exhaust etc. made it poss for me to dry my nylonsocks on the fender again without them melting!
Anyway I hope Paul solves his problem and we'll all meet up in Thenay for a beer and a big fight
& 
-Reid.
engineering,so if by lateral thinking Or simply banging with a hammer for that sake helps.get me the hammer..
take another typical R4-problem..Nothing to do with issue over,just for the sake of it.. Upper part of doors not staying snug so lets in noise
and rain and in the end they will develope cracks front and rear of bottom window line..there's quite a bit of air coming into the cabin by
vent or open windows there is a build-up of airpressure with no way of escape..So doors will bulge out.. due to simple fact they omitted an
exit vent somewhere..
I've made louvres hidden under the reg-plate on rear-hatch (F4) to let incoming air out; doors will stay tight and I get more ventilation if
needed.. also nice after taco-dinner
I only mentioned my simplistic solutions-if they would work for others is up for proof.
As mentioned water wetter aids to get rid of air-bubbles by way of removing surface-tension which again causes air-locks and hot spots which
for me was a problem. Opening up hole for exhaust etc. made it poss for me to dry my nylonsocks on the fender again without them melting!
Anyway I hope Paul solves his problem and we'll all meet up in Thenay for a beer and a big fight
& -Reid.reidalpine
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Paul-Do you have the small radiator? I have a shroud layaing aound as-well in case you want it..It directs the air where it's supposed to go
-like a funnel..ugly plasticky thing but there for a reason.we're talking a six-pack of Kronenbourg white so no biggie.. -Reid.
-like a funnel..ugly plasticky thing but there for a reason.we're talking a six-pack of Kronenbourg white so no biggie.. -Reid.
"My 4GTL doesn't have those air inlets".
GTL bonnets should have the main opening (on top of which goes the plastic grille), but underneath those should be two louvred inlets. If you don't have those inlets then you're lacking some cooling air that the GTL bonnet designers obviously thought necessary to include. The number plate surround being fixed to the bumper itself. See this link.
Possibly you have a bonnet from a different model (e.g. a TL). This is one possible cause of the problem.
Also, the easy way totally to eliminate the thermostat as a cause is to remove it, go for an extended fast run, see if the engine continues to overheat. If it does, something else is at fault. If doesn't, you simply need to judge whether the (lower) operating temperature is acceptable for efficient running. You'd probably have to replace the thermostat in the winter.
The problem with replacing with a new thermostat is that it is not good scientific method. The new thermostat is still an unknown quantity (both old and new thermos may be working perfectly, but still be contributing to the problem). You need a controlled experiment (the "control" being no thermostat at all) to eliminate this possibility completely.
GTL bonnets should have the main opening (on top of which goes the plastic grille), but underneath those should be two louvred inlets. If you don't have those inlets then you're lacking some cooling air that the GTL bonnet designers obviously thought necessary to include. The number plate surround being fixed to the bumper itself. See this link.
Possibly you have a bonnet from a different model (e.g. a TL). This is one possible cause of the problem.
Also, the easy way totally to eliminate the thermostat as a cause is to remove it, go for an extended fast run, see if the engine continues to overheat. If it does, something else is at fault. If doesn't, you simply need to judge whether the (lower) operating temperature is acceptable for efficient running. You'd probably have to replace the thermostat in the winter.
The problem with replacing with a new thermostat is that it is not good scientific method. The new thermostat is still an unknown quantity (both old and new thermos may be working perfectly, but still be contributing to the problem). You need a controlled experiment (the "control" being no thermostat at all) to eliminate this possibility completely.
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Cornish4
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My GTL bonnet doesn't have the extra slots either, and it is the original. So I can only assume that Renault started cutting down costs even more around the mid 80s. Another case in point are the stick on side window catches which mine has, but my previous car, which was only a year older, had bolted ones, and the bonnet slots too.
AdamWilkes
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My 1984 F6 also has glued-on sliding window catches. I have re-glued the driver's side 4 times so far..... now hopefully for the last time!
Paul Narramore
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Another thought. I drove back from the Bucket and Spade event at Ramsgate to home, 45mins at a steady 60mph but with the temp gauge on 120c. (Sharp intake of breath). Once home I had yet another look in the engine bay. Nothing terrifically hot. No steam. Nothing clearly stressed. But hang on. Felt the expansion tank and it was cool. Really? After all that heat? I think a new thermostat might solve a lot of problems and I MUST blow through the tube from the radiator to the expansion tank.
Cornish4
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Hello Paul, 120c!! That's bl__dy hot. If you can beg steal or borrow another temp gauge from someone I reckon that the thing to do, as I would doubt your present gauge. Also if you lift the expansion tank above the radiator and let the coolant find its own level and then top up the tank that should do the trick.
Paul Narramore
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How am I measuring the temperature? By the new Water Temperature Gauge which I have written endlessly about. I have been offered the use of a hand held digital thermal device which I will take up.
Sorry, my advice regarding "scientific method" obviously left out one crucial preliminary. The principle of "controlled experiments" comes second, not first.
First step in any laboratory : calibrate the equipment against a standard reading of known accuracy.
Put your Water Temperature Gauge into a pan of water on the stove (connected to whatever electrical supply it may need, carefully insulated from the water), put in a jam thermometer (which reads to over 100°C and is usually pretty accurate), compare the readings as the temperature rises. If your WTG is reading over the true temperature, there's your answer. As Malcolm says, it's a bit odd, even in a pressurised system, that the coolant is not boiling off at an indicated 120°C. It'd even odder that the system appeared reasonably cool after your Ramsgate trip if the 120°C reading was true.
First step in any laboratory : calibrate the equipment against a standard reading of known accuracy.
Put your Water Temperature Gauge into a pan of water on the stove (connected to whatever electrical supply it may need, carefully insulated from the water), put in a jam thermometer (which reads to over 100°C and is usually pretty accurate), compare the readings as the temperature rises. If your WTG is reading over the true temperature, there's your answer. As Malcolm says, it's a bit odd, even in a pressurised system, that the coolant is not boiling off at an indicated 120°C. It'd even odder that the system appeared reasonably cool after your Ramsgate trip if the 120°C reading was true.