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very hard to shift gears

51steve

Enthusiast
Messages
36
Location
oxford-- ohio that is
Hello Everyone,

Three days before I leave and the car breaks down. I jump in the car to run some errands, starts up just fine, shift into first and off I go. Shifted into second fine, then third no problem, but as I tried to shift to 4th I couldn't shift gears at all- Couldn't shift into neutral either. I had a foot on the brake and one on the clutch, and cut off the engine. After a bit of coaxing I finally got the car into neutral, pushed the car around and went back home.

I checked the forum history here to no avail. After thinking about it for a while, I remembered there is an intermittent squeal at start-up, and sometimes between gearshift under speed. I attributed the squeal to a belt I replaced at the beginning of summer stretching out a bit and needing to be retensioned. So I started up the car, went under the hood and upped the revs to get the squeal sound, and it's not my belts, sounds like inside the clutch housing. I tried w40 on the clutch lever and it doesn't help anything. The clutch lever doesn't move much if I try to move it by hand (maybe that's how it is supposed to be). The clutch pedal itself doesn't seem to have the same "action" as it once had, the pedal feels like it is starting to engage the clutch half way through the total range of motion of the pedal.

I'm grasping at straws here, any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Steve

By the way- is there a Haynes manual for the 4L? I have the "revue technique" but it's best to have as many sources as possible.
 
It sounds like a fault in the clutch, as opposed to the gears. Gearbox problems sound "crunchy" but the squealing sound suggests the clutch plate is sticking in some way, particularly as you say the pedal doesn't have the same movement or action as it once had.

As to repairing it I suspect you'll end up having to strip the clutch down & replace as necessary. However...... (I offer this without ANY guarantee of success, but you'll certainly be no worse off than you are now anyway....) If there's an access opening on the top of the clutch you could pour some ordinary engine oil into the mechanism, while giving the pedal a good pumping at the same time. This might free off the plates, if they're sticking on the spline. I HAVE done this myself (albeit by mistake!) on a Skoda and it DID work. The clutch smoked and stank like hell for about about a week, but the pedal was much smoother & the clutch worked perfectly!
 
Thanks for your reply Andrew- I might try your answer- as you said, as it stands right now, I'm not going anywhere. How much engine oil should I use? What about using WD40 instead, there are two places where I could pour the oil, but it must make a mess. I'll wait a little longer to see what ideas others have in mind.

Thanks,

Steve
 
By the way- I had tested the car last night in place by placing the parking brake, putting it in gear (2nd and 3rd) both at idle and approx 3000 rpm (didn't get the d-lux model with a tachometer) took my foot off the clutch pedal and the car died immediately each time. The internet told me this is a preliminary way to see if the clutch is worn out.

Thanks again
 
Hello Steve
As a matter of interest, which model do you have, 850 or the GTL? Adjustments to the clutch are different on each model but easier to do on the 850cc.
The reason that Andrew said to pour oil over the clutch mechanism is that it sounds like the clutch plate is not releasing far enough off the flywheel. The splines on the shaft might be jamming and a bit of oil would alleviate this problem.
WD40 might work but you have to aim it at the correct spot.

It might only be a matter of a slight adjustment but we need to know which model you have, to tell you where to adjust it.

There is a Heynes manual available. I got mine from Amazon.
 
I don't think your clutch has actually worn out, as the symptoms would be the opposite of yours. A clutch that's worn out gives symptoms such as the engine revs increasing when you accelerate but the car's speed not increasing and also the biting point being right at the top of the pedal's travel, amongst others.

I think the clutch's mechanism (as opposed to the clutch itself) isn't working properly. When you depress the pedal you move the pedal about 4 inches (maybe more) but you're only moving the clutch plates apart more then a few millimetres. The plate is forced apart under great pressure and it slides along the spline. If the plate sticks on the spline then the gears cannot be engaged or disengaged properly, as the plates cannot be pulled apart whatever you do. Yours seems to be occasionally working, suggesting it's occasionally sticking.

Another suggestion: with the engine switched OFF can the gears be changed easily without using the clutch? If so I suspect the gearbox os O.K. Then put the gearbox into neutral & start the engine; with the clutch DOWN can all the gears be engaged easily? Again, if so, then the clutch IS working O.K. Switch off the engine & again confirm that the gears can be engaged without using the clutch. When all this has been done, report back.....
 
My thoughts are that the clutch release bearing has seized causing the squealing noise it will have started to chew its way through the cover plate meaning the clutch will not adjust correctly allowing you to select gears
without stripping it or being there too offer a better idea this is my best guess
 
Sorry- I was having lunch- My car is a 1988 4TL - 956cc engine. Andrew- I did as you suggested- went through all the gears, not touching the clutch pedal, with the engine not running no problem. Started the engine pushed the clutch down and could not change the gears. Cut off the engine, not touching the clutch pedal, and changed gears no problem. Getting somewhere!

Thanks
 
Wanted to get that thread posted- As I was trouble shooting yesterday, I was pumping the clutch pedal and looking at how it was actuating with the other components of the clutch assembly in the engine compartment, and I noticed considerable twisting of the engine mount. Just so happened the engine mount was completely broken off and the starter was resting directly on the mount! I thought this was the culprit of my shifting issue. I called the auto parts place near me in Nontron France (they stock 4L parts), but they are on vacation- store closed for two weeks! Fortunately I have two parts cars, took the mount off and installed it in the one operating car I have. I have to say is that the engineer who designed this mount didn't like mechanics- you can't get two hands up there, and you need nimble fingers to reinstall the bolts!

I thought that the problem was going to be fixed after changing the mount, and I would be able to share my fix- but no such luck, same issues.

Thanks to all!
 
It is possible to run all the way up and down the gears without using the clutch while actually on the open road. You exert gentle pressure on the gear lever and then rev then engine up or down so that the output revs match those in the gearbox. It works up or down although going up is more straightforward. I did it once to get me back home when the clutch cable broke.

If you find you can do this it will prove that the gearbox itself is not at fault. Make sure you have a chase vehicle!

The squealing noise you describe is characteristic of clutch release bearing failure. If you can get into gear with the engine off (your previous post) this sounds most likely.
 
My thoughts are that the clutch release bearing has seized causing the squealing noise it will have started to chew its way through the cover plate meaning the clutch will not adjust correctly allowing you to select gears
without stripping it or being there too offer a better idea this is my best guess

Agreed 100%! As Mr. Reno says, the clutch isn't releasing, ergo the release bearing is stuck. A dollop of 20/50 poured into the housing might (might) release it and is worth a try, and might get temporarily get you out of a hole, but I fear you're looking at a clutch replacement. It's not a HUGE job.

Running up & down the gears sans clutch is possible (I did that getting a Reliant Robin from Heathrow Airport to Barnet, but that's another story...) by listening to the engine, looking a long way ahead & having all the traffic lights green! The problem is stopping & starting! Switching off, engaging first & starting in gear with throttle takes nerves of steel!
 
OK- I'll give the dollop of 20/50 a try. I was thinking of bending a piece of tubing to try to get some oil to the front most of the clutch housing (nearest gear box), or should just use your method of pouring while pumping the clutch pedal?
 
2 people are best; one to pump and one to pour. Just do gentle pumping, as the oil is slowly poured into the top of the housing. The pumper should hopefully find the pedal action becomes easier. The trick is to get it onto the shaft but in most clutches the aperture's directly over the shaft anyway, so just pour the oil in. If it's possible (safety permitting) I'd avoid doing this on your driveway, as the oil will dribble out from the bottom of the housing over time. Once the clutch's pedal action seems to have loosened off go for a drive & see how the car feels. There will be a lot of smoke & a ghastly smell from the clutch, but that'll ease after (quite a long) time.
 
Woo Hoo!!!! I took a piece of tubing and heated it to make an L shape. stuck it onto a syringe (blunt end- no needle- the type they use to give babies liquid medicines) and squirted some (1 tsp) oil. Then started the car up and squirted some more (2 tsp). I let the tip touch what I am assuming is the clutch mechanism then pulled up the tube a bit and squirted towards the gearbox. All the while frantically going into the car to pump the pedal. Things have freed up, took her for a ride, it's not like it should be, but at least I'm moving! Thanks for everyone's help, at least I know that when I come back I don't have a broke down car to work on. I planned on having the engine on the parts car rebuilt next summer (anyone know of a good quality machine shop in France? department 24) Then putting it into our driver- maybe now I need to do it immediately, clutch included. Time to enjoy my beer, I buy if any of you ever come around!

Thanks!

Steve
 
Good news, glad to hear things are working out! Spent this summer driving all over France; Calais, Rouen, Cean, Dinard, Batz-Sur-Mer, Croissic, St. Nazaire, Pampoul etc., etc., 1500 miles, performed perfectly, albeit in a Citroën, not a Renault! Dept 24 rings a bell; I think we went through it....
 
Good Morning everyone

Andrew- I should have said the Dordogne region. Glad you had a good trip- Like everywhere , plenty of nice people here. Paul, funny you mentioned the old post- I had looked at it when I was going through old threads trying to figure out what was going on with my 4L. Just so happens my support bracket is missing!s I have one on the parts car. Started the 4L this morning- shifting is stiff, but at least I can shift!

Thanks all,

Steve
 
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