What have I done! (R4 GTL)

[borgeb]

Petak, I can't help you with this one. But I can see the positive side of the problem, your hobby the last 6 years can still leave matters to investigate. I will stay tuned!

 

[harbourseal]

Try blocking off the pipe to the m/fold below carb ,that upsets the mixture ,i have blanked off a couple of engines including my own runs fine.

There is a down side to this to.
The breather pipe underneath the carburetor sucks in the oily fumes that come from oil sump. If you don't block the breather pipe that goes to the top of the carburetor, all the oily fumes wil pas through the carburetor and leave an oily residu inside it.
The breather pipes weren't there on the early engines, there was just a pipe on the rocker cover going straight down the side of the engine. The oil went on to the street from there.

The breather pipes are there for a purpose and that is to let the sump fumes be burned of inside the engine.

 

[petak]

That you have to pull out the choke a bit means that you do get a little to much air in to your engine. According to some engineers I know, this is a common problem with the Zenith 28 IF and modern unleaded fuel.

What helps is enlarging the main jet. Just take out one of the main jets from one of your other carburetors.
Take a 1mm drill bit and push it through the hole twisting it by hand. Do not attach it to a power drill.
From the top of my head the standard main jet is 0.9 mm by enlarging it to 1.0mm you get just a little bit more fuel in and that balances the mixture.
And shuddering should stop.
It's worth a try.

On both my F6 and the Sinpar I'm running 32mm solex SEIA carburetors I don't have the shuddering problems. A friend of mine dit the enlarging trick on his GTL with a Zenith 28 IF and that helped him. He barely uses the choke. Just to start the car.

Just a thought have you tested the connection of the manifold to the engine to?

Yes i have tested head, manifold joint, even tighten it little bit, but noting happened, and did not react on aerosol.

Will it make difference about you "new fuel" theory if i use lead additive for fuel.
Actually i put it every time i fill up fuel.
Also i use 95 octane unleaded fuel. Can that be reason for juddering

I have talked to few my local friends that drive R4 with zenith 28IF and they all have similar symptoms, except one. That one was working something with those levers that moves idle position when you pull choke
marked that lever on picture.


It looks to me like he just have done what i do when pull choke for few mm. But permanent

Try blocking off the pipe to the m/fold below carb ,that upsets the mixture ,i have blanked off a couple of engines including my own runs fine.
As harbourseal said your dwell is ok at 54 but it should not go to 59 ,could be a worn shaft bush.

So you are saying that my dizzy is worn to much?
Is there something i can do? Repair it!
Or i need to find one in better shape?
Or new one?

I had simillar problem as you - juddering around 60 - 70km/h on 4th gear when accelerate. It was worse with more loaded car. I did some inginition and carburetor setting and it didn't help. Then I changed sparks last week (I drove 25000km and run rich for some Solex32/ Zenith 32 testing time on them.) It seems to be OK now.

Well my spark plugs are old one used many years ago while car was running but they look OK.
Worth to change them.
Now i have Eyquem N43 bought in 04/2008 but have done some 20tkm with them.
I put them on car little bit more than year before i started to dismantle car.
And they worked fine on car before.
Any suggestion for spark plugs?

Petak, I can't help you with this one. But I can see the positive side of the problem, your hobby the last 6 years can still leave matters to investigate. I will stay tuned!

Well Borgeb there are many things still unknown to me about this small and simple car....that will end once.....i hope.... You help by just looking, reading, and listening all this staff.....it encourage me that at the end we will have one problem solved here at this fantastic place for R4 enthusiasts.

Something like this i can not find in Croatia

 

[malcolm]

It might be worth trying some different spark plugs - those N43 ones say they have a resistor inside but the Renault 4 has the resistor in the ignition leads. I use NGK BP6HS spark plugs.

Slow and lumpy acceleration would normally be because the flame is burning too slowly or too late. If pulling the choke out a little helps then it is probably too lean, as that slows the burn down. At this time of year the air hose to the exhaust is very important - not having that would cause the problem. Is the restrictor in the hose small enough? - should be only 1mm. Too big a hole will make the mixture lean.

You could drill the main jet out slightly - to about 0.9mm. That would make it less lean. Could also try unscrewing the mixture screw to about 1.5 turns out. Ignore the gas analyser - the Renault 4 isn't high tech enough to work at speed when it has been set up only at idle.

 

[mojobaby]

Hi Petak, I use the same fuel as you, 95 unleaded, and also use an additive every time I fill up.

When I completely blocked off the small pipe to the manifold, my engine ran a lot smoother at idle, but like Harbourseal says, it's important for the oil fumes, so I made my own restrictor and drilled a 0,8mm hole in it, only because my 1mm drill bit was broken.

Block off the pipe completely like Jonigel suggests, then if your car drives better you will know that Malcolm is correct ((Too big a hole will make the mixture lean. "

 

[harbourseal]

Hi Petak,
There is no need to put any additives in to the petrol you are using.
You have to address the problem and not treat the symptoms.

Like Mojobaby says blok the breather pipe underneath the carburetor and go for a drive. If the problem is gone try and make a new restrictor.
The actual measurement of the factory is 1.3mm but 1mm will do. I'dd stil go for the larger hole in the main jet to. You'll have a smoother ride if you do.
Then again like Malcolm says the R4 is not a high speed high tech car. So make it work like it should and forget about the the readings except for the valves and point gap.

 

[petak]

It might be worth trying some different spark plugs - those N43 ones say they have a resistor inside but the Renault 4 has the resistor in the ignition leads. I use NGK BP6HS spark plugs.

Slow and lumpy acceleration would normally be because the flame is burning too slowly or too late. If pulling the choke out a little helps then it is probably too lean, as that slows the burn down. At this time of year the air hose to the exhaust is very important - not having that would cause the problem. Is the restrictor in the hose small enough? - should be only 1mm. Too big a hole will make the mixture lean.

You could drill the main jet out slightly - to about 0.9mm. That would make it less lean. Could also try unscrewing the mixture screw to about 1.5 turns out. Ignore the gas analyser - the Renault 4 isn't high tech enough to work at speed when it has been set up only at idle.

Can try with different spark plugs, aldo this N43 were working nice before (since 2006 to 2009)i started to dismantle car back in 2009.

I am missing that air hose, as mine original was in very bad condition. Trying to find good replacement at local stores can find it. One thing has left me, rubber exhaust hose for vessels that are certified for fight temperature.

Does 1,5 turns mean 540° or 1080°?
Will try drill main jet after i use all new details that i can check to see will it work.

I do not bother with high tech instruments but as i do not have experience with this part of Renault4 they are only thing that is guiding me

Hi Petak, I use the same fuel as you, 95 unleaded, and also use an additive every time I fill up.

When I completely blocked off the small pipe to the manifold, my engine ran a lot smoother at idle, but like Harbourseal says, it's important for the oil fumes, so I made my own restrictor and drilled a 0,8mm hole in it, only because my 1mm drill bit was broken.

Block off the pipe completely like Jonigel suggests, then if your car drives better you will know that Malcolm is correct ((Too big a hole will make the mixture lean. "

Will see what diameter in my restrictor really is. I have 1mm drill ready. Those below 1mm will be hard to find

Hi Petak,
There is no need to put any additives in to the petrol you are using.
You have to address the problem and not treat the symptoms.

Like Mojobaby says blok the breather pipe underneath the carburetor and go for a drive. If the problem is gone try and make a new restrictor.
The actual measurement of the factory is 1.3mm but 1mm will do. I'dd stil go for the larger hole in the main jet to. You'll have a smoother ride if you do.
Then again like Malcolm says the R4 is not a high speed high tech car. So make it work like it should and forget about the the readings except for the valves and point gap.

Yes, you are right....problem is something that i am trying to locate.....just wanted to be sure that lead additive will not change input data for finding right solution.

Will go for one thing at time to see what will solve problem.


Thank you for so many ideas and tips what to look and where to search solution.

 

[petak]

For start i have managed to find air hose.
Cardboard paper on inside and outside with aluminum between
Searched all around www and find it at my local car parts shop for cheap 50kn (5,70 GBP) for 1m



Cut it down and placed where it should be



This weekend rest of the tips will try to check,

 

[petak]

Next post i must whisper, hoping that my lovely R4 wont hear me.

It looks like this small black tube made big difference to my juddering problem.
Yesterday drove 130 km on curvy road that is perfect for driving 70-80km/h in 4 gear. Some corners even go down to 60-65km/h.
And i did not feel juddering on whole trip.

I felt something else but i believe that is pinking, or i need to adjust valve clearance once more. On small uphills somewhere between 70-80km/h

Must say that i did not make any adjustments on timing, distributor, plugs, points, fuel mixture or anything else under bonnet.
I have simply put this air tube on its place.

Will drive for a while like this to be more certain.
But believe that i would feel juddering on my 130km trip yesterday, at least once.

Any thoughts?

 

[petak]

Today made another 60km/h towing trailer without juddering
Little bit more that strange noise (pinking believe) as it was harder to pull.

Will try with just little retarded timing to see will get rid of that pinking.

For now looks promising.
keep fingers crossed

 

[malcolm]

The hose has probably made the mixture better (burning faster) which is why you now get the pinking under load. Retarding the ignition a bit until it stops pinking should fix it.

 

[JonathanT]

Fingers are crossed

 

[petak]

Retarded ignition just for the "hair" and now working fine.... No jiddering any more, no pinking any more.
But it feels like it lost some of agility on the throttle.
It feels like need more time and more throttle to reach high speed (90km/h)
Example, When there is slight uphill and i am around 80km/h and press throttle nothing much happens. Earlier it would "jump" and accelerate happily

Changed all bulbs in instrument panel to LED bulbs.
Biggest advantage is that now instrument panel is illuminated. Before light was very dimmed aldo bulbs were working.

Does you low beam light on instrument panel glows when you turn on car headlights?
Mine does not and apparently it is not even connected to light switch. If i have read wiring diagram correctly

 

[JonathanT]

Hi Petak I can't quite remember how my GTL dash was wired. But I do know the Dipped headlight indicator light never worked. Only the main beam (blue) light worked . The only indication that the side lights were on was the dashboard background light would come on

 

[jjad]

I found that there is a space for a bulb, but there isn't any connecting wires on the flexible circuit board:

http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/threads/has-a-bulb-gone-in-the-instrument-panel.4195/#post-23724

 

[petak]

There is definitely space for bulb.
I even put bulb in i that space, and light goes on if i bypass it with wire from background light but then it will light on even when i switch to main beam. Than i would have two indicators low and main beam (green and blue)

Tracing wiring i found out that there is no wire from light switch to instrument panel.

 

[malcolm]

It might have changed over the years or countries of production. I fitted bulbs and bulb holders in all of the empty holes in my 1983 GTL. That gave a green headlamp warning on low beam which went out when I switched to high beam. I found it too bright and removed the bulb again.

 

[André4Renaults]

Vehicles fitted with a DIPPED beam warning lamp usually have a 2 watt bulb and colour it green or green/yellow. The MAIN beam warning lamp is both a lower wattage, usually 1.2 watts and is coloured blue, is a colour less easily detected by human eyes, so less distracting in the dark.

 

[petak]

I thought that bulb burned out. SO changed bulb but nothing happened. Then tested wires and did not find it on instrument panel.

Will leave like that as now my instrument panel glow in the dark just right and would not bother with that Dipped beam light!

 

[JonathanT]

Ha ha well done Petak you have succumbed to wisdom