Ammeter Wiring

[Tomcat]

Some technical assistance required please on the electrical front.
I found a TIM 60 0 60 ammeter in a 'spares' box and thought of fitting it to Van No 2.
Wiring instructions show 1 wire from starter solenoid to gauge. 2nd wire from alternator to gauge.
Access to solenoid is virtually impossible without stripping carb and manifold out of the way.
My very simple brain asks, if you are connecting to the terminal that is directly connected to the battery, can you not connect to the battery +ve itself?

Corrections, comments appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Cornish4]

Hello Tom, I might be wrong, but I thought ammeters were very old school, and come from the days of positive earth and dynamos, and nowadays a volt meter is the gauge usually fitted. These are really easy to fit, positive cable to any ignition controlled terminal in the fuse box, and negative of course to earth. Regards Brian.

 

[Tomcat]

Hello Tom, I might be wrong, but I thought ammeters were very old school, and come from the days of positive earth and dynamos, and nowadays a volt meter is the gauge usually fitted. These are really easy to fit, positive cable to any ignition controlled terminal in the fuse box, and negative of course to earth. Regards Brian.

Brian, agree with you 100% on a voltmeter. Have one on F4 No 1.
More of a technical thing if my 'common sense' approach is correct or not?
Regards Tom
PS at 77 i am very old school!!

 

[jjad]

Normally, ammeters measure current through them. So for a car would need some very thick cable and be capable of handling very large currents. However, I've never fitted an ammeter to a car, so I'll leave it to the car electric experts to answer your question.

 

[Tomcat]

Normally, ammeters measure current through them. So for a car would need some very thick cable and be capable of handling very large currents. However, I've never fitted an ammeter to a car, so I'll leave it to the car electric experts to answer your question.

Yes cable needs to be at least 10 sq mm. Terminals are not normal yellow up to 6 sq mm. I fitted an ammeter many years ago but do not seem to have kept my notes. Gradually getting there though with how the wiring should be. Thanks for posting. regards Tom

 

[André4Renaults]

Normally, ammeters measure current through them. So for a car would need some very thick cable and be capable of handling very large currents. However, I've never fitted an ammeter to a car, so I'll leave it to the car electric experts to answer your question.

+1 to the above! Ammeters measure the "rush" of electricity through a wire, in much the same way that a water meter turns more rapidly as you turn on more taps (bath, shower, washing machine etc.) in one's home. The VOLTAGE can best be described in this analogy as the pressure

A voltmeter is useful in showing both the voltage in the battery and that the battery is being charged. An AMMETER will show the rate of flow of current either into the battery, if it's being charged and out of the battery, if it's being discharged. To wire up an ammeter ALL electrical items (except the starter motor) have to pass through the it, so some pretty heavy duty wiring is needed, unless one is prepared to use electrical shunts within the car's wiring. These split the load, sending a proportion (say 10%) through the meter and the remaining 90% through the shunt. The ammeter can then be used with smaller gauge wiring.

 

[JdeW]

Best solution is a Hall effect Ampere meter, no thick cables or expensive shunt required

 

[André4Renaults]

Best solution is a Hall effect Ampere meter, no thick cables or expensive shunt required

Yes, that's an excellent solution-I'm a little too "old school" to have thought off that!

 

[Tomcat]

Yes, that's an excellent solution-I'm a little too "old school" to have thought off that!

Ah more "old school" personnel

 

[JdeW]

I'm pretty "old-school" as well, an Amp-meter with a tube EM-84 is also possible, but beside being "old-school" I try (tried?) to keep up with modern electronics

 

[Eccles60]

Just fit a voltmeter! Easier to fit and gives you battery condition as well as charging voltage. The size of cable you'd need to drag into the car is impracticable these days (IMHO).

 

[angel]

I am an ammeter hater, at least when it comes to the old style instruments. All electrical loads have to pass through the instrument, and if something goes wrong with it or its connections, the rest of the electrical system will be malfunctioning, too.

 

[JdeW]

I am an ammeter hater, at least when it comes to the old style instruments. All electrical loads have to pass through the instrument, and if something goes wrong with it or its connections, the rest of the electrical system will be malfunctioning, too.

I don't like all kinds of extra mounted gauges, except if it is really necessary which one only would do in real performance and race cars.
But everybody his/her own style is fine.
For an ammeter, the best solution is a Hall effect meter.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Tom I know you like to get lots of opinions but this has been posted on two separate Facebook groups everyone says fit a voltmeter forget about the ammeter and coming here I find the same thing amongst the fellow Renault technical department here this is beginning to sound like politicians keep have another poll until you get the results you want
Much love Paul

 

[André4Renaults]

Tom I know you like to get lots of opinions but this has been posted on two separate Facebook groups everyone says fit a voltmeter forget about the ammeter and coming here I find the same thing amongst the fellow Renault technical department here this is beginning to sound like politicians keep have another poll until you get the results you want
Much love Paul

Yes, as has been said, the voltmeter is going to give you much more information and more usefully than an ammeter would. It would also be easier to install.

 

[mr-reno-139]

In my opinion ammeters belong to the days when we had dynamos if we've got a car old enough to have a dynamo no we need to keep the car in original condition so end of conversation really I guess :-)

 

[Cornish4]

Ahem, didn't I say just that at the beginning of Toms post. Ammeters are old hat, a voltmeter is the way to go. End of

 

[mr-reno-139]

Tom in case you're reading this just to confirm that you're a lovely bloke and they a well valued member of the Renault 4 community both here and on Facebook you have achieved more with your vans then many have and there is no faulting your Enthusiasm and willing to learn we have had many conversations privately over Facebook Messenger and you have been really helpful supplying parts for some of my customers whenever you have asked me for anything you have been 100% reliable in every transaction which is more than I can say for some of the people I have had dealings with on Facebook particularly
stay safe everyone
given a choice I personally would exclusively stay on this forum

 

[Tomcat]

Tom in case you're reading this just to confirm that you're a lovely bloke and they a well valued member of the Renault 4 community both here and on Facebook you have achieved more with your vans then many have and there is no faulting your Enthusiasm and willing to learn we have had many conversations privately over Facebook Messenger and you have been really helpful supplying parts for some of my customers whenever you have asked me for anything you have been 100% reliable in every transaction which is more than I can say for some of the people I have had dealings with on Facebook particularly
stay safe everyone
given a choice I personally would exclusively stay on this forum

Mr Cunningham, how nice of you to say so

 

[Tomcat]

Gentlemen,
May I make some "final" comments on this matter:-
1. I am sure many of the people on this Forum are not on Renault Classic Car Club on Facebook. I did not ask the quuestion on Renault Owners Club page. Was I looking for a wider band to get comments from? Answer is Yes.
2. I do fit extra instruments, as a warning light, telling me something has gone bang or overheated or both, is a cost-saving exercise by the manufacturer.
3. Both my F4's already have a voltmeter fitted.
4. My original question stemmed from wiring diagrams saying connect to the starter solenoid. Impossible without stripping out half the engine bay.
5. Being me, I have researched the matter as best I can. I always listen to words of advice, from those more in the know about a particular car.
Stay safe.