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Any advice for repairs to starter motors and speedometers please?

dreaming mechanic

Enthusiast
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73
Location
France
Hello
I am 12 and dream of being a mechanic and restoring old cars. My mum and me have just got a 4l 1978 and are planning to restore it so it is beautiful again. We live in France.

Unfortunately when we bought it we were told it had a new starter motor but once we got it home it wouldn't start again and we're pretty sure that is the problem. Is it possible to fix a starter motor or will we need to get a new one?

The speedometer also isn't working. We have checked the cable which seems to be fine and we think it is the speedometer it looks as if the shaft might have a split in it which might be the problem. Can anyone tell us how to get the speedometer out and if we can't fix it can we buy a new one that will fit in?

We need it to pass a controle technique in two weeks time!

Also what are the best products for treating rust once we have cleaned it all up and where is the best place in France to get primer, paint and sealant from, and which are the best products? We need to be able to apply them with a brush or roller ourselves.

Thank you very much to anyone that can answer our questions!
 
Hi
Great to hear about your enthusiasm for old cars, and congratulations on getting an R4!
This page is good for starter motor problems (you never know, it might be just a loose wire):

https://www.la4ldesylvie.fr/tests-et-diagnostics-d-un-demarreur

You could get a used starter motor (and most other R4 parts) here:

https://www.palace-de-lancienne.com/demarreur/ However, you have to be very careful when ordering parts - before you do anything, check the numbers on the plates under the bonnet and on the engine:

https://www.la4ldesylvie.fr/plaques-constructeurs-et-identification-des-renault-4

This is absolutely critical (you probably already know this, but there are 2 types of R4 engine - 'Billancourt' (845cc and down), and 'Cléon' (852cc and up). They're completely different, and you can easily end up with the wrong parts if you're not sure what you're ordering)! If you could tell us what the numbers on your oval plate and engine plate are, it'd be a big help.

For the speedo:

https://www.la4ldesylvie.fr/depose-du-tableau-de-bord-2eme-modele-1967-1982

https://www.leboncoin.fr/recherche/?text=compteur renault r4 4l&sort=time&order=asc

There are lots of threads about speedos on this forum. Have you checked that the cable is turning properly?

A few parts sites in France:

https://www.palace-de-lancienne.com/

https://www.melun-retro-passion.com/fr/24-r4

https://vehicules-anciens.fr/fr/

https://www.4lparts.com/

https://www.mister-auto.com/

https://www.oscaro.com/

Leboncoin is good for parts too, as are vide-greniers (when things get back to normal..). There's almost always someone who worked in a garage selling parts and tools, and they'll be a great source of invaluable information. If you can, try to get hold of a parts book for your car - once we know what type your R4 is, we may be able to help with this.

Good luck with your R4!

P.S. There are loads of good R4-related videos on YouTube too.
 
Your englisch is even better than mine. And probebly your french to!
Good to follow your dreams.
 
Hello Andy

Thank you very much for your reply and for so much information, that's brilliant for us.
We have cleaned up the starter motor and it seems to be working better now. Its quite strange that it seems to not always start on the 1st or 2nd go though then will start on the 3rd or 4th time. We are wondering whether it is worth getting another one though as a spare we are worried about it not starting if we are out in it. Or maybe we can fix one of the spare ones that came with the car.

We have taken out the speedometer and cleaned it up and fixed the needle that was warped. The cable turns ok so we think the problem must be in the gearbox but we're not sure how to get into that to look to see what the problem might be.

The plate under the bonnet says it is a billancourt R1126, and the numbers in the middle say 4 and 100.

I will take a photo and put it on to show you.

We have another worry with the brakes. They are very soft. We asked the person we bought it from who said that was because they weren't servo assisted but we don't know if thats true or not.

We need to take it for its controle technique in 2 weeks and of course need it to be safe. We took the wheels off and bolts but we can't get the front of the brakes off to have a look inside.

Thank you so much for your help. We love the car and are really excited about it
 
Hello Crelesy. Thank you for your message. Your english is good too. I am english but was born in france so I do speak both, But I don't speak Dutch! I'd like to visit the Netherlands though.
 
If the starter motor is heard to be spinning but is not turning the engine over, the problem is in the drive pinion. Not necessary to renew the whole starter for this, the pinion can be replaced.
The brakes may need adjusting, or bleeding, or both.
I'd suggest you get a copy of the Haynes workshop manual, I think it's better for the learning mechanic than the French RTA. Also an older book on automotive engineering is very helpful to learn the basics in automobile construction theory.
Nice to hear that such a young person is interested in an "outdated" car like the Renaut 4!
 
I own a R1126 too. And the brake pedal must be stand on firmly to put it to a stop when traveling. About midst of the complete sway. If that make's any sense. Not that it is spongy but yust a hard press to get any brake pressure. It past apk(dutch mot) yust recently. Just make sure there isn't any difference between right and left brake on front or rear end. And no crappy hoses or rusty lines.
Then you should be all right.
 
To check your speedo drive in the gearbox plug the cable into the gearbox properly. Have the speedo end disconnected and somewhere you can see it. Then jack one of the front wheels up, make sure the car is chocked on the diagonally opposite wheel. Then with the gears in neutral spin the front wheel and watch the end of the cable - if the inner turns then the drive is probably fine. Often the case is the cables aren't plugged in properly if no other faults present
Keep on dreaming!
 
Pity you're in France, otherwise I would be able to suggest companies in England who could help you!
 
hi
Here is a photo of the engine I am just learning where everything is. We're not sure if we have solved the problem with the starter motor and might need a new battery. Now we are having trouble taking the brakes apart to check them. We are cleaning her up and she is lovely some rust but hopefully not too bad Thank you
 
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looks good!
before you run the motor too much lift the speedo cable off the exhaust pipe - that won’t help the speedo to work.
it also looks like you have drum brakes all round - first there’s no servo and second I can see the handbrake lever under the exhaust pipe.
Make sure the handbrake is off and that the brake adjusters are all undone before trying to get the drums off, they can still be a pig to remove and may need tapping off from the back with something soft. Don’t use a hammer you may split or crack the drum.
Be careful with the brake dust, it may contain asbestos - depends on when the shoes were changed last - best to spray with water first so you don’t breath it anyway.
 
Thank you so much for all your help so far.Yes there are drum brakes which we have not had before so its all new. We can't get the off at the moment the adjusters are really stiff so we are still trying. The brakes work but are soft so we dont know if it can pass the controle technique.

Thank you for your advice about the speedo cable on the exhaust I will do that right away

We are still trying with the speedo. The cable turns ok I think if you turn one end. It also turns when one end is in the gearbox and the speedo needle moves if we turn it by hand so we are confused but going to try again to work it out
 
Hi
Great to hear about your enthusiasm for old cars, and congratulations on getting an R4!
This page is good for starter motor problems (you never know, it might be just a loose wire):

https://www.la4ldesylvie.fr/tests-et-diagnostics-d-un-demarreur

You could get a used starter motor (and most other R4 parts) here:

https://www.palace-de-lancienne.com/demarreur/ However, you have to be very careful when ordering parts - before you do anything, check the numbers on the plates under the bonnet and on the engine:

https://www.la4ldesylvie.fr/plaques-constructeurs-et-identification-des-renault-4

This is absolutely critical (you probably already know this, but there are 2 types of R4 engine - 'Billancourt' (845cc and down), and 'Cléon' (852cc and up). They're completely different, and you can easily end up with the wrong parts if you're not sure what you're ordering)! If you could tell us what the numbers on your oval plate and engine plate are, it'd be a big help.

For the speedo:

https://www.la4ldesylvie.fr/depose-du-tableau-de-bord-2eme-modele-1967-1982

https://www.leboncoin.fr/recherche/?text=compteur renault r4 4l&sort=time&order=asc

There are lots of threads about speedos on this forum. Have you checked that the cable is turning properly?

A few parts sites in France:

https://www.palace-de-lancienne.com/

https://www.melun-retro-passion.com/fr/24-r4

https://vehicules-anciens.fr/fr/

https://www.4lparts.com/

https://www.mister-auto.com/

https://www.oscaro.com/

Leboncoin is good for parts too, as are vide-greniers (when things get back to normal..). There's almost always someone who worked in a garage selling parts and tools, and they'll be a great source of invaluable information. If you can, try to get hold of a parts book for your car - once we know what type your R4 is, we may be able to help with this.

Good luck with your R4!

P.S. There are loads of good R4-related videos on YouTube too.
hey
can we have your e mail adre
 
I have a similar problem with the speedometer of my '81 f4. When I boght it it was not working, so I swapped it with a previous model, and it worked quite well for a while (even if the number I guess are in a different position so it turned out to be the only speed-underestimating r4 I've never driven). Then I took off the dashboard, I don't even remember why, and the car stopped for couple years, now I restarted it and put the dashboard back in place but the speedo is not working. I checked both ends of the cable to be in their place, and cable turns, I can see it moving the car withe the gear in.
Is there any teeny tiny piece that can be in the wrong position, some easy repair that is quite common to do?
I remember opening another speedo to change the mileage and the mechanism looked pretty easy... I will try to open this one too, but i wonder how I can recognize if something is broken or out of place.
 
Does the odometer work? If no, check that there is enough cable length coming out of its end in order to engage properly with the speedo spindle. Make sure you have threaded the cable nut at the speedo head all the way in, thesame goes for the gearbox end, too.
If the odometer registers but the speedo needle is not moving, the needle spindle may be stiff in its bushings.
 
Does the odometer work? If no, check that there is enough cable length coming out of its end in order to engage properly with the speedo spindle. Make sure you have threaded the cable nut at the speedo head all the way in, thesame goes for the gearbox end, too.
If the odometer registers but the speedo needle is not moving, the needle spindle may be stiff in its bushings.
Thanks Angel, I think I figured out what happened: the arrow is slightly bented on the outside and rubs against the metal frame. (I made a benchmark test and it worked, but it was with everything dismantled).
I warmed it up and straightened it again, today I'll check whether it works or not.
 
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