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E10 petrol

edwin

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Hi Guys. As you know Ronnie the Renault is in France, its an 1985 car 845cc. What is the advice about which petrol to use in France. I hear that E10 is corrosive to classic car internals, and that the fact is recognised by the industry and the authorities, and that old type petrol will be maintained for the foreseeable future for the classic car market. What will that petrol be called and will it be available at all petrol stations, ie a diesel pump, and E10 pump and a classic car pump? If any of you chaps in France have information on this I would like to hear about it. The same thing has been announced here, and E10 is due to be the standard petrol grade here this year. It has been suggested to change to super unleaded which will still be E5. But that has a higher octane so how will that affect R4's.
 
Hi I use sans plumb but have used this millers produce before in another classic car.


Good luck
 
The higher octane rating will not affect the R4, it is actually better than standard unleaded, more in line with the older fuel it was designed originally for, in mine I use normal unleaded on shorter round the villages runs with a lead additive, on longer (ie motorway, long runs) I use the super unleaded plus lead additive.
 
I do the same as you laxeian, 95 octane for local journeys, and 98 for extended trips, motorways etc, but always with an additive. The Millars Oils one is excellent, with an octane boost and ethanol protection in a graduated container, so you can measure the exact amount you wish to put in.
I remember all the scaremongering that went on when unleaded fuel was first on sale in the UK, the end for classic cars was said, rubbish, we overcame it. So ethanol, no problem, but use that additive.
Regards Brian.
 
I have to jump in on this topic since I believe that countries in Western Europe have higher standards for fuel than Eastern Europe and the Balkans.

So as I read, it is a smart thing to add the lead additive to R4 and older cars when using 95 octane fuel (or 98 octanes if you can get it)
Now the thing is (speaking for my city only, but I guess the situation is similar in the rest of the Balkans) I can get the 95 octane fuel, but there's no 98 octane fuel. There are other alternatives with various names like:

- Ecto Plus, premium fuel; advertised to increase engine power, better speeding up, less fuel consumption, and less mechanical wear
- Ecto 100; advertised as better than 98 octanes unleaded fuel, approved by the FIA and FIM, and has passed EN-228 standard (is this a 100 octanes since it's advertised as better than 98 octanes).
- G Drive 100; I guess it's the same as Ecto 100 just another brand.

Now the question is, since I'm sure that those premium fuels have some additives in them, is it safe to add the lead additive to them or the additives they have are enough and nothing more needs to be added?
 
No petrol sold today has lead or any of its substitutes, except for LRP petrol, if it is in fact available in your country.
No lead substitute / additive is necessary on both 845 and 1108cc engines; it seems that exhaust valves and valve seats on our engines are adequate enough to resist valve seat recession. Even on other car engines prone to valve seat recession, it's not a crime for the engine to fill up with unleaded without any additive once or twice or ten times...as most people are led to believe. Symptoms usually start to appear after, say 20.000 kms and only if a good part of it has been done under high engine load: motorways, hill climbing and so on.
What we experience here in the Balkans is inconsistent petrol quality and/or illegal blending, which results in octane numbers lower than claimed ones. Last September I took part in a classic car rally of about 2000 kilometers, on a moderately tuned Mini 1000. Due to lack of service stations in the area we filled up with whatever brand was available, 100 octane whenever possible. At the end of the rally we both agreed that we had better results with a particular brand's 95 octane petrol, than other brands' 100 octane, some of them well-known worldwide...
At least we don't have (yet) the catastrophic ethanol side effects here, as many drivers in countries with higher fuel standards experience...
 
There's no lead fuel in Serbia for at least 10 years, so the additives will be the safest route. But I'll have to test that once I get the car running.
 
so , does that mean that you have to add two doses of stuff, an ethanol fuel conditioner for the E10 petrol, and a lead substitute as well ?
 
No you do not need a lead substitute for R4 as alloy heads have hard seats ,exhaust valves in cast iron heads are where you get valve seat recession .As for ethanol ,that is a differnt problem .
 
does that mean that you have to add two doses of stuff, an ethanol fuel conditioner for the E10 petrol, and a lead substitute as well ?
I'm sure Valvemaster do some jollop that does both.
 
No you do not need a lead substitute for R4 as alloy heads have hard seats ,exhaust valves in cast iron heads are where you get valve seat recession .As for ethanol ,that is a differnt problem .
Is this tru? Never heard of it. I own a 1975, 839 06, 782cc engine and i use lead substitute. It is'nt harmfull but I like to know for sure I m using it for nothing before I trow it away ..
 
As said before. The alloy head has hardened valve seats. There is no need to use lead substitut. Even the older engines need no substitute.
 
Hi, leaded fuels today can only(?) be found for some aviatiion purposes, there are some interesting items like cold starting , smooth running etc formal info on page 48..

Figure 7.1 Grades of Aviation Gasoline in the United States * ASTM D 910 ** LL = Low Lead. Grade 100LL contains less tetraethyl lead antiknock additive than Grade 100.

. But when some of the 7 • Aviation Gasoline Introduction 43 1 R. Schlaifer and S. Heron, Development of Aircraft Engines and Fuels, Graduate School of Business Administration, Harvard University, Boston, 1950, p. 552. 2 Ibid., p. 596. TXT_213103A 9/30/06 7:24 AM Page 43 44 older 80-octane-rated engines were fueled with Grade 100/130, they encountered spark plug fouling and exhaust valve deterioration because of its higher lead content.3 A lower lead content version of Grade 100/130 (Grade 100LL) was developed in an effort to create a single universal grade of avgas. Today, avgas is used mainly by small airplanes and light helicopters, but there is also a significant number of military and civilian transports powered by large piston engines that use avgas. There are two main specifications that cover avgas: ASTM D 910 and DEF STAN 91-90. These specifications describe basically the same products, although there are minor differences between the specifications for the same grade of avgas. As planned, Grade 100LL is the most popular, by far.

 
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