Fabric roof and the ideal Renault 4

[malcolm]

I'm in the process of deciding on the spec for my ideal Renault 4.

When I built Ermintrude I decided my ideal R4 would be rust free, tidy and reliable. Now I realise it must also have a front bench seat and a metal grille. But what else does it need? I don't want to keep restoring these things and then change my mind.

I'd be especially keen to hear opinions on the full length fabric sun roof. I've seen the pictures in manuals but have never seen one in real life. I'm only aware of one in the UK. Does anyone have any experience of the R4 fabric sun roofs? Are they nice to have on an every day car, or are they are real pain through water leaks or noise?

Also have I forgotten any cool features - what else would you add to the spec?

:clementi:

 

[Mr Jelly]

Hmmmm, fantasy Renault 4 time.

Probably an early '80's F4 van but with 1400cc R5 power, decent R5 GTL type seats and effective rear sound deadening. That would be about it. Needs to be rustfree obviously....

Sunroofs, never tried an R4 with one but did have one in my Twingo. Was good in summer but useless in winter, leaked a lot and let condensation in.

 

[La Poste]

The fabric roof is fine providing that the material is in good condition, but once it begins to deteriorate you'll need an umbrella! It's useful for carrying stuff too (not just looking cool on sunny days), and more practical than a 2CV roof as you can fold the rear section forward as well as folding the front back (more like the double sunroof you sometimes used to see on Fiat Pandas). I can't remember what the noise levels are like compared to a metal roof, but I'm sure an automotive acoustics expert could have hours of fun finding out.... :lol:

As for ideal spec, your most obvious ommission seems to be the colour (then again, I think cats only see in black and white don't they?). Sunflower yellow (as on Ermintrude) is definitely the coolest colour for a late-model car, but doesn't look quite right on older ones. I'd go for either very pale blue, or lime green myself.

Other must-have features on my ideal spec would be a sticky-up, dashboard-mounted rear view mirror (probably the egg-shaped variety as found on very early cars), yellow headlight bulbs (a nod towards the car's origins), huge shiny translucent steering steering wheel (like the stuff they used to make the frames of sunglasses with - originally fitted to late 1960s cars I think), a metal flap beneath the windscreen instead of a plastic one, a glass expansion tank for the radiator (only you would see it, but they do look much cooler than the plastic ones), silver-on-black number plates (see comment on yellow headlights), a period radio (with the innards replaced with a modern FM receiver), round front indicators, and a 1960s rear parcel shelf (padded vinyl instead of cheap plastic as on later cars). Chrome bumpers, hubcaps, and front tubular handle things are of course obvious (but not the nasty chrome trim on the doors and wings), as is an early 1970s dashboard (which had a slightly different speedo to later 1970s versions, and which is much nicer than the R5-style post-1983 set up). Plastic door window frames don't look as good as metal ones, but are a must because the metal ones are rubbish and rust within minutes. And of course don't forgot the umbrella handle handbrake. I'd probably want an 1108cc engine, but if it was an 845cc you could add soundproofing to the list if there was the chance of ever using it on a long journey. I'm sure there are other things I've forgotten, but that's a starter for you!

Incidentally, if anyone happens to have such a vehicle (in LHD) going cheap please let me know......... :wink:

 

[Liam4R4SPARES]

Great question ! the ideal R4 has to be one with the R4 super rear tailgate,mid 60s chrome bumpers [the more bulbous type] ,post 68 chrome grille [the sausage shaped one], bench seat in the burgundy red colour , GTL mechanics , chrome full wheels trims as on the Parisienne and chrome door handles with what i have only ever seen on a car passing me in 'Nice' was a set of chrome door handle surrounds .Colour would have to be white.I know it sound boring but with the seat colour and chrome it
would compliment things .Hows that ! ? any more suggestions .
Sorry but got carried away from the real question.I has a fabric full roof once and there really was no great benefit and it did tend to get lots of wind noise when driving with it open .

 

[La Poste]

If you're going for the chrome door handle surrounds Liam, what about matching chrome trim on the rear lights (covering up the sides, like a Morris Minor), and chrome on the pressing around the rear numberplate? I think these were all options in the early- to mid-sixties on Italian-spec cars. Not my cup of tea, but rare!

I used to have some Parisienne wheel trims. Someone nicked one. :evil:

 

[Liam4R4SPARES]

Had a '62' a up until 3 years ago and loved the extra chrome but hated the 3 speed and 750 cc engine.Especially as i used it daily .Do you have a photo of these door handle surrounds ? as i just saw them on a car as it whizzed past .Did Renault fit them as a factory extra ?
p.s nearly forgot to mention the really early chrome tailgate handle that was fishing hook shaped .Also i have just realised no one mention the R3 on this site .How many are still in existance ?

 

[malcolm]

I feel a bit guilty here as my ideal spec has to include the 1400cc engine and 5 speed gearbox sitting around in the garage, and hence should also include disc brakes, and probably my own mad botch to make the handbrake in the dash work on the rear wheel brakes. I can't bring myself to modify a nice car in this way so my ideal Renault 4 also has to be hideously rusty (but otherwise completely original).

I had a WV Polo once where you could completely remove the sunroof and get a pressure wave in the cabin at 30mph. Is the R4 roof like this, or is it just generally loud with the roof peeled back?

Pre 1973 in the UK can get you those nice silver on black number plates which hapily coincides with the bench seat era.

:clementi:

PS - My uncle in Yorkshire once had an R3. It was LHD from Belgium. That was back in the '70s so can probably be counted off the survivors list.

 

[La Poste]

Pre-1973 equals free road tax too (if you're unfortunate enough to live in the UK - we don't have road tax in France).

Regarding the chrome bits, yes and no... I have got some pictures in period brochures, but they're in a box in England somewhere, which isn't much use when I'm in France. Sorry.

One more thing I've just thought of (mention of the R3 made me think of it): an original-style rear badge (the one which was just a huge chrome 4).

 

[Cuno]

The early 70's are my favourites - they are my ideal R4 in every way, looks, style, etc. I once owned a '72, and i loved every part of it. It had a 12V system which is a big plus compare to the 6 volts system (i guess 12 volts system came around '71 - '72).

I now have a sunroofed R4 and one regular, and my favourite is the regular. The sunroof makes way to much noise, and when a i meet a big car/truck on a narrow road it sounds like it's gonna come off! Scary... I like the looks of it though, and i'm sure glad to own it. Probably not gonna use it much though.

I'm not sure i mean the same roof as you Clementine -- mine is not fabric but plastic. Are the earlier ones fabric? Mine's a '75.

Check out these for looks:
http://home.swipnet.se/renault4ever/Galleri2/raid.html
http://home.swipnet.se/renault4ever/R4-galleriet/r8.html

 

[malcolm]

I'm glad I asked the question. I'm quite sensitive to noise (being one of those acoustic engineer types) and the standard R4 is bad enough so maybe I'll leave the fabric roof out of the equation.

I think it needs to be 1969 to 1972 to have all the right features. The colour is irrelevant - it'll need to be repainted as it will be hopelessly rusty and will need lots of new panels. I was planning to hold a poll on the forum to decide the colour. This can be a truly democratic Renault 4.

There is actually one on eBay.co.uk at the moment although it's rumoured to be a late 70's car that someone has pinned a '72 chassis plate on and then painted in 2 pack. Maybe a good thing as that would count as not a nice car. It does have a bench seat - I'll look at it if I get the chance, but it won't stay lime green for long....

:clementi:

 

[angel]

The ideal R4: Plein air, R5 engine, 5-speed gearbox and 4WD (if one can find the way to fit both 4WD transfer case and 5th speed...) I'm converting such a R4 to Plein Air at this time (R5 1108cc engine, 5-speed gearbox but no 4WD). I fell in love with the sunroofed R4 when I drove a Safari, and I was looking one to fit on my '75 since then. I was lucky to find a whole car (Jogging!) which I bought. The sunroof was original (plastic, the same material as 2CV), but in bad condition. So I had it rebuilt in its original color (blue). it looks nice, but I have not finished restoring the car to test it (noise, water leakage. Rain is no problem, though, I left the car on heavy rain, no leaks. Clementine, if you need any dimensions, I can provide what you will need. i think the hardest part to make would be the "lip" on the car roof, which is necessary to avoid water (if you have seen a factory sunroof, you will understand its construction). As a conclusion: the 2CV sunroof is better, but the whole sunroofed R4 beats 2cv...

 

[Cuno]

What material did you use when you made the new sunroof, angel? Mine needs to be restored soon, so i need to know where to find the right stuff.

 

[malcolm]

Hi angel, I haven't said hello yet - welcome to the forum.

The R4 roof shouldn't leak with that big lip, but the lip would be really tricky to fit to a car that didn't originally have a sunroof. I think it's a case of buying a car with a sunroof or not having one. In reality so few of the early cars turn up I'd probably accept with or without.

Sounds like your car is getting a lot of attention- when will it be on the road?

:clementi:

 

[angel]

To Cuno: It sounds weird but the only material i could find on the right color was waterproof fabric used for balcony awnings. It looks and fits very nice, maybe it is very simple in shape. It is much more easier if you have the original hardware (crossbars, clips etc.) than making them from scratch. I think that if you are interested in black color, it will be easier if you go to a shop which repairs cabrio hoods, you will have a choice in materials too. (vinyl matches pretty close the original).
To Clementine: The basic construction of the roof lip is this: You cut the car roof at the rectangular "bulge" pressing border, maybe a little towards the inside. Then you should fold it about 1cm upwards. Then you spot-weld the lip on this. But the problem of finding the right profile for the lip remains. I looked for a while and couldn't either find it or find anyone who can make it. I hope the car will be on the road on May, I am working on the seats right now, which is time-consuming since I have to make them exactly as they should have been (rainbow stripes etc...)
:clementi:[/quote]

 

[RichardIRL]

I reckon there is no single best Renault 4. My best ones would be:

A black or dark blue Renault 4 in the 1968-1974 style with old-fashioned cream or brown leather seats and chrome trim and an aluminium grille.

A metallic black Renault 4 with gordini alloy wheels, and a modern range-rover style grille in brushed aluminium with round lights but more modern and a comfortable interior with no regard for keeping anything original, but hopefully not breaching lines of taste.

A Renault 4 GTL with an interesting paintjob and black plastic seats and painted trim.

And last but definitely not the least, a rusty battered late seventies one with a roof rack on it, old faded stickers in the windows, this one being the favourite.

 

[dave]

fabric sunroof

85 RI've just seen the enquiries about sunroofs.
I had a threequarter fabric roof fitted to my 1985 R4 GTl about 3 years ago. It is a "Farmont swing fabric roof" and cost a bit @ £450 fitted but is superb. My car is left outside and there has been no leaks ,no stretch etc. It is extremely quiet, even @65mph and unlike open top cars you don't get whipped about. The standard of fitting was A1 and has totally transformed the car .
regards
dave

 

[malcolm]

Dave - I'd be really interested to see photos of your fabric roof installation. Does it look anything like the original factory sunroof? Could you post a couple of photos.

I went to see a really old R4 for sale yesterday ('67 - see photo). It had the translucent orange steering wheel (really - the whole steering wheel was see through like a set of '70s sunglasses) and it had a matching gearknob. They are features I'd never really considered in my spec, but they would be really cool to have.

It also had the really old grille. I think that makes them look a bit unhappy. Any other car would look mean with that grille but I don't think Renault 4s can pull off the mean look.

The only other downside is the beige dash - I feel it is too bright, although I think '72 and maybe late '71 were the only years that fit my spec with the black dash.

Life is tough when you get as picky as me. I'm thinking I'll have to become all non-original and mix model year features to get what I'm looking for.

http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/files/cream-r4_144.jpg

 

[Alpineman]

Sun roofs (not)

Malcom

Did you buy the 67 turquoise 4. The grill wouldn't put me off I don't think. Don't think I'd cut a hole in the roof though! If you didn't or decide not to is it still for sale and whats the asking price? I f you don't mind me asking.

Lee

 

[Chris H]

Clementine did the see through wheel not have a metal bar inside it?

I also wouldn't go chopping a hole in the roof, they are not exactly the stiffest cars out theres are they!

A normal one with a bigger engine and decent brakes would do me though.

 

[malcolm]

Hi Alpineman, welcome to the forum. Don't worry everyone - I wouldn't cut holes in a nice old R4. GTLs better watch out though.

I've been pondering over buying the '67 R4. It's a nice car - original, solid and straight with a nice paint finish, but the seals have paint on them and the front apex panels and rear wings need replacing. Also I'm never happy with other people's chassis welding, although this car has only a little welding to the outboard suspension mounts.

I think it would be a great car for someone to use as is. It wouldn't be ideal as an every day car as it is a 3 speeder with 6V electrics, and it would need to be garaged.

I think the seller's intention is to sell the car on eBay in the summer when he has more time. He's looking for around £2k.

Edit: The see through wheel did have metal bars inside it.