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New Member / New Project R4L

Ruairi

Enthusiast
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Bonjour , Guten Tag , Hello :)

Just signed up to your Forum after doing some R4 Googling,
It all Looks certainly right up my street and i look forward to sharing ideas and photos.

Im an irishman but Living in France for three years now , Am a fitter by trade for about 12 years now, I work all over the world on TBM,s and Road headers, ( two types of tunneling methods )
it gives one the advantage to see that everything really is possible no matter how heavy or awkward it, much like building a ship or flying to the moon , maybe .. !

We are mid swing doing up an old stone house here so forgive me if updates are not always forthcoming as some other topic religious members can be !
I wish i could be as good with a camera, some have so many photos i wonder how they can build and i admire that as it is indeed an incentive to to a better standard and skip the short cut you were about to take at the end of a long day. Voila

The Car.

i found my car advertised close to Bordeaux and headed off with the trailer for it, Turns out there are two villages with the same name,the wrong one being 2 hours more south.. You can guess which village i picked.... a burst wheel on the trailer - and then another whereby a bystander pulled an R4 wheel out of his garden to fix.. and we eventually got to the right address and home that night with trailer lights that failed. a short day turned long..

1967 850 cc i think Renault 4 totally original pulled from a barn as they tend to be in France. it is ... Bordeaux Rouge from origin and has faded so evenly all over it is almost a shame to paint it, kind of a flat purple all over, minor surface rust nothing serious,

bench seats still in it and a funky clear orange steering wheel...
Engine was seized so i never drove this car, its sat in my shed for 1 year now.

My parents had one of these when they were very young so it might be in the genes a little, This is in fact my first Renault ever.


The project...



I have a friend in Niort that seems to be a magnet for old 4s and 6s and 2cvs, one day in his yard i spotted an old 5 Alpine turbo down the back - 1983 vintage.
Alex i said, does that go . oh oui oui ca marche tres forte ca..
So on closer inspection - where he put a forklift prong through each open window and hoisted it up by the roof to get it out.. we found the metallic blue Alpine 5 turbo to be complete yet the carosserie- body ate with rust from bad past crash repairs..

Rats had nested on top of the coil / map sensor thing, but there was still green coolant in the system.

A deal was made and to cut a story short i got a very good deal of everything i wanted on the car and he kept the shell for scrap. So 6 months later and and a day of mechanics in the snow- Foie Gras - 1 bottle of red, 6 Chimays and 2 busted knuckles and we had every conceivable piece off the 5 and in the flatbed of the transit.

Alpine turbo rims, Alpine steering wheel gauges clocks wiring loom, all the engine and box and every bracket bolt nut you name it.

rear disc axle front 'tri angles' anti roll bars, the interior , fuel tank and lines, the lot.

The Engine ran but we didnt drive it. the little T2 Garret has minimal play and a -31 actuator.

Alex is a bit of an expert on old French cars and is of the opinion the first 5 and the 4 are essentially the same chassis sauf pour the the Front of the gearbox bracket for the 5 vitesses.

So the plan is basically to build the R4 once with all the Alpine running gear, then take it apart and paint it, iv built a mk2 gti 16v Golf from absolute scratch in the past and painted it first ... and then had to cut here a bit,,, weld there a bit, and at the end of the job it looked tatty again, so i think a trial build is worth the effort.

What i want with this car is a mint R4, Totally original on the exterior yet run it very very low to the ground and of course the Turbo alpine Eng and box and the 4 discs and anti roll bar struts etc.
I have Koni Adjustables for it already.

I wouldnt mind actually keeping the bench seats rather than the 5 alpine beige buckets which will make it look like its trying to hard,
even the alloy alpine wheels im not sure of , i have though about cutting the original on a lathe and adding a 1/2 inch or an inch to them to get the stretched tyres happeing.

there is 3 litres of paint sitting in the shed for it too, but it is perfect Rat look right now if thats what one wants, but herself will also be using this too so i think it will need to be neat.

One thing i do need is all the window rubbers / rubber seals , there a must even if i dont paint it, i had no success finding an online 'boutique' for these rubbers etc if anyone can point me in the direction.

( the 2cv is easy to get stuff for even seats can be bought online)

I have some photos of the car already but in its original state as it stands,
I presume they need to be 'hosted' first which takes a lot of extra time but i will get a few up as some will be interested to see it.

I see the owner of this site has a non Turbo alpine already done so i will no doubt be looking to that for inspiration ")

A Plus tard :wink:
 
...I have some photos of the car already but in its original state as it stands,
I presume they need to be 'hosted' first which takes a lot of extra time but i will get a few up as some will be interested to see it...

Welcome onboard! :D

Pictures can easily be attached to your post without hosting them somewhere else.

Just click on the button "Attach Photographs" below and upload them here.
We all LOVE pictures! ;)

Cheers,

David
 
If you were nearer the Vendee I think you would get a lot of visitors!

Welcome
 
...yet run it very very low to the ground ...

Of course it's a matter of personal taste, but...why should ANY car be like it has broken suspension to look cool? Especially an R4 that looks SO cool with that great ground clearance?

Have a nice time with the project, we all love to see photos of 3-speeders, so keep us informed! Btw. I can supply both good quality door seals and window channels, if you can't find them in your place.
 
R4 Alpine

Hello

Still no photos to post, Every time i try to view 'my photos' now the screen flashes blank and i get the message, windows explorer has malfunctioned, and then windows explorer is re-starting, even if i try to open, view even as thumbnails,
I feel the Oul Toshiba is very virus ridden.

I tried to go directly from here to upload and it made all tabs on Firfox crash so i need to sort it or il not be able to view any of my old photos stored within. Maybe the reboot disc is the way to go but i will loose everything i think if its not backed up..... and if i back it up wont i just transfer the Virus on the HDD and re-install it again !? Computers are just not my thing, il turn my hand to anything else but that,

There is an article on MS tips about how to perform a 'clean boot' which seems to fix it, Il try tomorrow as id like to host some photos.

Wish you all a good summer and a dry winter which is kind to the old machines :rolleyes:

Stone walls , tiles and dumping stuff Chez moi, but the crane is out of the shed and i will be pulling the seized 800cc out of the R4L in the coming days.
break from the buildings

Thanks to all for the parts links, I haven't opened a link yet if the truth be known, but there all written down in the organizer which is the only way i can get through life at present.

In the haybarn beside the R4L is the rest of my projects, A Rwd Ford sierra cosworth that is minus the engine.. The most important part one might say but i have in preparation to go in i have a 2.2 variable turbo, diesel engine and loom and rwd box from a Late vauxhall omeaga, I think it will be a worlds first of a new generation fly by wire diesel in an old RWD sports car,
in the 1.8 tonne omega this stove was incredibly potent, 125mph max on the autobahn, while returning often 60mpg on normal driving, The only thing stopping it from spinning wheels was the ESP which i have de-activated. So my thinking is that with a good re-map and all fueling and boosting fault levels raised , a larger bore custom exhaust manifold and bigger turbo this could be at least a 200hp engine with maybe 500nm + if i can boost it enough. I should be very reliable, very silent and very fun.
The recaro leather is mint, Nice Bbs on it, lifted it upright with the cherrypicker and hot blasted every corner of the underneath, This car was without engine when i bought it so its not like i have wrecked a classic, merely preserving something thats getting rarer.
Nice tight Limited slip diff and konis are already fitted. apart from that its standard ish in the body ...

There is a certain Old drift diesel 240D or 300 D mercedes estate on youtube somewhere that has a huge turbo and the thing is an absolute animal and looks a lot of fun, its in Norway or Scandinavia i believe.


There also a 1963 2cv with sucide doors thats awaiting the 652 cc visa engine to be dropped in, A turbocharger from a mercedes smart brabus is sitting beside it and im looking a suitable v twin bike injection/ignition system.

And finally a Porsche 968 Sport fof 93 thats been dismounted for a clean up,
Theres a paxton supercharger sourced from the states to graft onto that too. I had a 928 5.0 V8 with loom and box etc sourced but he sold it all in the mean time as i couldnt get the cash together in time, maybe a blessing in disguise as matching torque tubes and clutchs and chopping would have been a nitemare.

These are all parts and projects i have acquired over many years and i have put a cap on it now as i dont work abroad so much anymore. only spending allowed is on parts to finish them.

Whatever about the heartache from time to time i think it will be nice in a few years to open the garage and see a load of old classics sitting in a line. a lot of them will be too rare to find in many years, yes even the sierras,

seemed to have amassed a store of old mobylettes /solexs too,
pride of them being a 1951 which i restored and use once a week to go for a cruise on.

Pics to come and thats a promise,
Abientot
 
Of course it's a matter of personal taste, but...why should ANY car be like it has broken suspension to look cool? Especially an R4 that looks SO cool with that great ground clearance?

Have a nice time with the project, we all love to see photos of 3-speeders, so keep us informed! Btw. I can supply both good quality door seals and window channels, if you can't find them in your place.



I hear what your saying , and my own taste will probably change too, but at present im 31 and i love seeing classics low slung, its also practical when they have power as it will limit torque steer which id say when my R4 has its 112 hp or more will near threaten throw it over. i find it also helps in the bends, and you feel every inch of the road ,
The car will probably overheat, probably wont idle correctly , its a turbo carburettor, id say they were troublesome out of the factory so it wont be my everyday car, its for that i plan to enjoy bouncing along with the power under me,
Fashion used to be jacking up the rear of the car and even putting a red light above the axle, they still do it with the Lada Riva as i saw on a recent trip to siberia !

But i still think that a slightly low car looks better, take a mercedes avantgarde which is -20mm , it looks a more complete package than a standard one.

But torsion bars are easy change anyway should things one day change !
 
this_thread_is_worthless_without_pi.gif
 
Projects projects projects ")

Few pictures as promised,

R4L alpine turbo, 2cv 652cc visa engine with turbo and injection,

Sierra cosworth with new generation turbo diesel to go in,
supercharged 968 Porsche on 18 x 10 BBS,

Couldnt access the old pictures so took some new ones to proove im not full of s..t
Please note that all cars are in their original state and are neithar restored nor washed in the last 30 years or more so they are tired looking,

The T2 turbo can be seen in the first picture beside the engine, it has been removed for ease of fitting,

All parts for all cars including paint are in the shed, just needs fitting and doing,

Today doing tipper cylinder seals in the transit which is actually my main vehicle ")

Salutations
 
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project pics

Few more pictures,
And some of the stairs that i finally poured out, not really R4L related, but it goes to explain why im not on the button with my responses :rolleyes:
Have a 100m2 slate roof up 13m2 to start next..


Anyone got any good ideas of where to start on an R4L that will be getting the best part of a full rebuild.
Was thinking of actually putting it togeathar, given it a trial run and then stripping it completly for the paintjob when i know all is good, or is it better just taking the body off the chassis and getting stuck in,


What about the hanger for the 4 or is it 5 speed R5 box, that looks an interesting thing to do neatly.

Ameties
 
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Ruairi that project sounds interesting, but I have heard that in France it is illegal to install engines that are not original spec.

I have been told this by French people, and have not seen it written anywhere myself so it may not be true.

But it might be worth clarifying before you undertake any serious modifications, especially since that car seems to be a particularly nice example.
 
Yes you are right Richard, serious engine mods are a no no in France, and this is just my opinion but it seems a great pity to start messing with what looks like a very nice original car that is now quite rare.
 
Hello lads

yes you are right mods are ''interdit'' in France, but it depends where you are and who you know etc ,
There are many many modified cars in France that are non standard, The problem is when it comes to the CT - Controle technique, which is the french sort of NCT /MOT /TUV.
You just need a decent relation with the test center or two know the tester and you can get things through, even putting the original engine in the boot is suffice as a proof as covers him because you could have swapped it minutes later.
The car is a clean one, floor is solid,
Putting in the Turbo stove is what would some would call ruining a good example, but i just like messing with things, i figure if the changes are under the skin it cant be all that bad if it makes it more fun and useable.
 
I like it. Nice car. Ugly.

Having done it before however, I would install a 4 speed GTL Box, as it fits the engine and the car without any cutting.

Mine lasted for years with plenty of abuse. It was also quick beating a Nissan Silvia Turbo off the line. The ratios were also good for acceleration and cruising.

When I measured the clutch on the last one I did I found the GTL and Gordini were the same. The brakes were the same on a GTL and a Gordini also. The 4L is so light I do not think it needs a servo.

Pre-76 parts (especially pre 70'parts) are difficult to find. It is also nice to have a handbrake on the rear wheels AKA the GTL. If you fit later running gear you will ba able to buy all you service items from the local motor factors so you wont worry too much about ragging it everywhere. I found GTL rear drums fine for 550KG. I also brake hard.

So my advice would be to use the hot motor (the best one for the R4 in my opinion), with GTL brakes and gear box. The whole job will be simple nuts and bolts apart from the exhaust which will need to be fabricated. The air filter clearance also needs thinking about from memory.

This would also be reversible should the need arise.

I would keep the car looking as stock as possible for a number of reasons. If you make it look anything else than standard, then hawk eyed petrol heads will try and beat you every time you go for a ride. 135/13 remoulds rule.

Also you will

1) Retain the excellent ground clearance and off road ability, much the point of an R4 and much needed in your region.

2)Make all the people you blow into the weeds think you are an excellent driver, and not a cheat (or petrol head).

3) Avoid the unwanted attention of the Rozzers

4) Make the car super desirable and hence valuable when you sell it.

5) Make you more attractive to hippy girls.

I bolted on the anti roll bars from an F46 which I remember were alot thicker that standard.

It rolled more than my 911 turbo but was far more fun to drive.
 
Hmm, it would seem that bribery is rife in France. Certainly modify a car, I'm all for that, but why not use an 80s car, plenty of those around in France, and restore this little beauty to its former glory. Only my opinion, now you can tell me to bu--er off.:smile:
And politeperson, I know what you mean about having more fun, I had a couple of TVRs, one of them for 10 years, but I've had a lot more enjoyment out of the GTL.
 
I wouldn't really call it bribery as such, because there is normally no money involved,
if the inspector can see big power dropped in yet knackered ball joints and a blowing exhaust and a rough body he knows its a magnet for trouble right then and their and can jeopardize his own job by passing you, if he doesnt see you driving around like a maniac in those 2 years the chances are you will always get mods through once a relationship established

Where i live in the country here its very very old school, some of the older farmers and retirees still live like they did in the 1970s,
Theres a mercedes 190 that pulls into the cafe in front of me for his morning rose... and id say every bushing is hanging out by the squeeking, he never drives the engine above idle in any gear.
A renault 18 that comes to town once a month and i think he must park it in salt water because the dog can get in and out without him needing to open the door,
In any case they all have their CT - Controle technique because the testers just have to be lax with these people, Paysans they are known as, They wouldn't understand what or why keeping the vehicle up to date is or why its important,
I suppose its part of the charm of the place-it doesnt try be a cutting edge country so the systems cant be the same as somewhere ultra modern.
The police drive a 1.5 normally aspirated diesel van, they sometimes do a drink driving check- but at the other side of the town where they know the farmers dont drive by after their days ploughing and few pints on board.
as i see it its a bit like this, you cant tell me an R4 with all renewed brakes and bushings and a powerful engine all done properly is any more dangerous than an unsafely maintained car.
A 2.1 litre TD from a citroen xantia is another popular conversion in the veritable peugeot 205 and makes a very potent little car.

I hear your point that its not legal etc but laws change every day on something or another so it has to be taken with a pinch of salt and a thinking person must decide if there is a real safety issue- or if its the government just making money and/or taking more freedom away with fear tactics. you will find its the same in the UK and in Germany that there are many cars with stretched tyres and engine swaps on the road everyday ,
But in any case that is what i bought my car for, the 3 speed 800cc which is seized doesnt excite me much,the plan was to make it an R4 Turbo and i now have all the bits so it would be a shame not to do it anyway
Im personally a fan of very old stuff with more up to date running gear hiding under the skin and that how i intend to restore it.


It wont be speed stripes and fluro colours and bucket seats and tinted windows,

just a restored old school 4 with power to go and power to stop and at the same time All donor pieces are from another Renault with basically the same chassis,

Im building it neither to add value or particularly give surprises, im building it for me because i like that sort of messing !

try finding a clean 1967 R4 and then complete 1983 turbo running gear in ten years time, Exactly it just wont happen because its getting rarer so i feel im making something rare a little bit rarer, dont worry there will be enough pure R4Ls from the same era to make up for mine, And its often the purists that envy the modded car, and the modded car that envys the purist. with a careful mix and match why not try build the perfect part of both worlds.

when the baby son grows up then he can take out the R4L in 2067 for its 100 year rally and id still rather it a little boosted car on 4 discs than its 800 cc 3 speed !
 
PS- i also have an R5 Alpine turbo Full interior in Beige if anyone knows someone into 5's
Its clean but obviously not new. thinking 80Eur for the lot, think the -parcel shelfs also there
Located at Sauze Vaussais but transport can usually go anywhere via Shiply if theres a van passing.
Just a heads up as il put it on the local classifieds when i get around to it so let me know if anyone interested
 
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