CO2 emissions

[Beige Belgian]

Hi, I've just tried to renew my parking permit with Lambeth council. I sent the form off paid the £32.50 for the 6 months, and received a call today telling me that the prices have gone up (this is since they sent me a letter 3 weeks ago) to £60. The reason being the car is 1100cc and is made before 2001. The reason given (not to line there pockets with more money) is CO2 emissions. It really pisses me off, all this stuff about the bloody environment, and it seems the council are using it as an excuse to hike up prices.

I can't speak to those in charge on the phone as they don't accept phone calls. I have to right a letter. What I would like to know is what are the CO2 emissions of a R4 GTL, and how do they compare to more modern cars?

cheers
Matt

 

[Bluebell]

:yellowre: Ermintrude the 1984 GTL has CO2 emissions of 0.74%. I haven't a clue what this means but to pass the MoT it had to be less than 4.5% vol.

 

[angel]

I think you are both talking about CO not CO2. CO content depends mainly from combustion quality and mixture strength and is rather poisonous gas, that's why it is the main pollutant that is checked in the emissions test.
Latest laws force car manufacturers to decrease CO2 production,too,as it is not toxical but contributes to the "greenhouse effect". But as it is a natural product of combustion the only effective way to decrease it is to decrease fuel consumption of a given vehicle.
Gas analyzers measure CO CO2 and HC as percentages (by the way Bluebell's 0,74% CO is on par with, say, a 1998 catalyst equipped car, if it does say somtehing...). But this is not an accurate methos, since what we are looking for is the actual mass of pollutants a car produces. That's why manufacturers give values in gr/km,which are far more realistic but need special "laboratory" tests to be measured. As these became mandatory in the '90s, I think there are no published values for the R4, or am I wrong?

 

[Bluebell]

Sorry angel, I told you I didn't know what I was talking about!
I had a problem a while ago, re insurance, about finding the equvalent UK model to Blanche, the French 1990 TL, and I rang Renault HQ who were very helpful. Might it be worth asking them? Can't find the number just now but will keep looking.

 

[malcolm]

I had a chat with an engine development engineer who reckons the CO2 emissions are measured using the same cycles as the old fuel efficiency figures, but he's not sure.If that's the case you could work out CO2 emissions by comparing fuel economy figures (if you can find them for the R4).

In real life they are probably equivalent to a modern small car. Council won't understand that, and won't realise that your carbon footprint has been further reduced by not having a new car made for you.

Why don't you write back to the council and point out the Renault 4 is a zero emissions vehicle when it's parked.

Otherwise trading standards should have something to say about them not selling permits at the advertised price.

 

[angel]

Since we are looking for gr. CO2 per kilometer it is a simple matter of calculating the exhaust gas mass per kilometer (from the fuel consumption figures and the petrol burn reaction), then multiplying with the CO2 percentage we read on the gas analyzer...in theory! Practically this content changes as engine load and speed vary, and we do not know the exact composition of the petrol. So there must be really a fixed ECE test method.
It would be interesting to see gr/km pollutant figures for the R4 (especially the 1108cc), I am sure they would be lower than those of many modern 1600 to 2000 cc cars.

 

[gpovanman]

OK then, let's have a look at a few things. These modern cars that the environmentalists harp on about are usually driven along at a steady 70 mph along the motorways of the UK. This means that however aerodynamic it is, the engine is under greater load, and therefore putting out more pollution per mile than it needs to. Second when you look at a lot of the modern performance cars, their emmissions figures seem quite low. But who, when they have 200 or more bhp under their right foot, is going to drive along like a granny? If the government and the councils really cared as much about emmission as much as they cry on about, they would reduce the speed limit on the motorways to 55 mph a la USA. But they do not want to be seen top be copying the States. How much fuel is burnt every year with these cars that are loaded with kit? When you add all the weight of padding, soundproofing, aircon, DVD and stereo systems and god knows what else, this adds to the weight of a car considerably.Then we come on to the rather more subjective subject of what happens when a car reaches the end of it's useful life. Apart from the seat foam, and the rubber mats and headlining, a R4 is all metal. When you look a new car, you see acres of plastic, an aircon system, and more padding than a line of cells at an asylum. All this has to be recycled using complex chemicals which in themselves are hazardous to produce and reprocess. I think on moral grounds, I will stick with the 4 and my Land Rover (1977)!

 

[angel]

You cannot be more right, Gpovanman! The low emissions of today's vehicles are based on the lambda correction. But this practically does not take place when you place a heavy load on the engine (e.g. sharp acceleration). All those people who buy 200HP cars for their everyday transportation need a way to show others that they have a fast car...
A R4 that has reached the end of its life is seldom being recycled by the conventional way. Most of it will end as spares for another R4, the defective parts of which end as decoration in our garages or living rooms. (I recycled a R4 torn boot rubber mat today by making small rubber pads for the trays in my tool carrier). What is remaining (rust, that means ferrum oxides) is great feed for the plants! (no joking, it gives them the ferrum they need).

 

[Neil]

Hi, I've just tried to renew my parking permit with Lambeth council. I sent the form off paid the £32.50 for the 6 months, and received a call today telling me that the prices have gone up (this is since they sent me a letter 3 weeks ago) to £60. The reason being the car is 1100cc and is made before 2001. The reason given (not to line there pockets with more money) is CO2 emissions. It really pisses me off, all this stuff about the bloody environment, and it seems the council are using it as an excuse to hike up prices.

I can't speak to those in charge on the phone as they don't accept phone calls. I have to right a letter. What I would like to know is what are the CO2 emissions of a R4 GTL, and how do they compare to more modern cars?

cheers
Matt

How nice of them to call it a parking "permit" when EVERYONE knows it's a bl##dy tax!
Television licence? No! Another bl##dy tax!
Sorry.
I feel better now.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Funny how loads of threads are being resurrected from many years back
I remember reading these when i first joined here

 

[petak]

To give my contribution to whole topic 9 years old.

Results from this year MOT here in Croatia
Section EKO TEST is one to be looking
Prazan hod - revs test was carried out
other figures are clear (i believe)


CO must be below 3,5%.......mine 2,593%
CO2 should be between 13 ad 17%.......mine 11,16%
HC below 300 ppm....mine is to high 566 but do not know how to correct or adjust it
O2 below 2%......mine is little bit more but that is (as later i found out) because hole in exhaust system

ONLY CO2 affects pass or fail EKO TEST

 

[mojobaby]

Hi Petak, HC is Hydro Carbon which I believe is basically unburned petrol. It's probably an adjustment of your fuel mix screw in your carburetor.
without having an exhaust analyser, it's obviously difficult to know just how much to turn the screw.

 

[petak]

That might be it, as mi exhaust pipe is black and fuel smell badly.
BUt on this carb i can not regulate mix any more....

Will try another carb and see how will be.

 

[angel]

High HCs along with normal CO are usually the cause of too much ignition advance / plugs - points in need of adjustment or a slight intake air leak. I would check all of these (measuring with a gas analyzer) before bothering with another carb.

 

[petak]

Thank you Angel.

For that i need to go to mechanics as i do not have gas analiser.

One thing i have noticed. Need to drive it with slightly puled choke cable in town when speed is low. On open road i can not feel that as gas pedal is most time pressed and butterfly is open.

 

[angel]

This doubles the fact that you should have a vacuum leak somewhere - check it.

 

[petak]

Is there way to test vacuum or i need to change it?

 

[angel]

You can test the vacuum advance capsule on the distributor by sucking through its pipe - you should feel it airtight.

If it is OK there may be an air leak around the manifold gasket or carburettor base gasket. You can spray a little of engine start around these areas with engine running and check for revs rising.