Big engine in little R4...

[jeffr4]

You're completly right, fortunately there are still purists, which do nothing to change the R4! And it's a great car like it is.....but I also have been in Thenay/France 50 years anniversery of the R4 and if you see all the different configurations...wooouw.

As I use a modern 1.4 cleon injection engine with much more horsepower and later on with a twingo ECU (changes settings etc.), I already consulted the MOTtechnical engineer,( in our country the RDW keurmeester) what and how to do, to past the MOT test in Holland, also because I adjust the steering/brake servo etc., so no problems and I get the approvoal and also no problems whith the assurance.

The Dutch MOT were even enthousiastic about the modern congifuration of ignition/engine control unit/less emmissions and an engine that runs on biofuel/ethanol.

You are right, it looks a little bit strange to have the Bendix ECU inside and underneath the dashboard of a R4 ! I did not have seen it before and.. as they see.. donot try this at home and keep it original.

 

[malcolm]

Looks like a very interesting project Jeff. I have a Renault 5 with a 1400 single point injection engine and it is very nice to drive. The idle is very smooth. A Renault 4 with that engine would be nice. I was thinking about finding an alternative camshaft to allow the belts to be at the gearbox end of the engine.

 

[Cornish4]

Hi there jeffr4, I see you know your subject, and have clearly done your homework. Where would we be today if people hadn't tried something different and thought outside of the box. I look forward to seeing the results of your endeavours on the forum or at a gathering of us enthusiasts. I too went to Thenay and enjoyed seeing what mods owners had done to their 4Ls, a real eye opener. Regards Brian.

 

[jeffr4]

I was thinking about finding an alternative camshaft to allow the belts to be at the gearbox end of the engine.

I didnot want to change anything on this engine and that's why I have to make space for the belt and dynamo,
but as this engine comeup 3 cm higher and I mounted the dynamo higher on the engine... it will be not much, so minor sheet metal work.

Even the old models R4 have a bigger buildin bracket for the battery.

And yes nice to drive and the idle is very smooth and later on with a adjustable ECU even better.

 

[Lobster]

I love the original stuff. But then I also like the idea of a modernised R4. An R4 with a Cleon engine would be very interesting indeed!

Hope I'll be able to see your car at some point at a show or somesuch jeffr4 as it sounds a very interesting conversion.

 

[Snoopy1974]

Hi all,

this afternoon I spoke about my project with my favourite mechanic, he told me if I fit a R16 engine on a R4 GTL gearbox, the engine is going to turn at very high speed because of the gearbox, not adapted to the engine ???...

A friend of mine also told me that the R16 engine is longer, wider and higher of 10 cm than the 1108 of the R4, help :eek: :eek: :eek:

If anybody has anwers to the first subject please let me know

 

[Snoopy1974]

Someone gave me this link, very interesting:

http://www.flat4ever.com/?page=boite

 

[Rutger-peer]

I love the original stuff. But then I also like the idea of a modernised R4. An R4 with a Cleon engine would be very interesting indeed!

Hope I'll be able to see your car at some point at a show or somesuch jeffr4 as it sounds a very interesting conversion.

R4 HAS a Cleon engine right?

And Alexandre, the volvo 343 has the 1.4 Litre Renault engine. You could try to get one of those out of a Volvo 343. I've also seen them being sold on Marktplaats.nl, the Dutch variant of Le bon coin, Ebay etc.

http://auto-onderdelen.marktplaats.nl/volvo-onderdelen/534377855-een-complete-volvo-343-motor-87000-km-gelopen.html?return=eJxVjssOgjAQRf%2FFBHZCHyhYQgxs%2FI6G1kAobUMHRY3%2F7tS4cTM5c3vPpFJQ8RoFqYNgxUnsgpZLP9QDgBd5PjmvbTbLZQJvpISQWZPLFdzeWaUXpY22%2Bc2Z21%2FQV2U2wGzOm2loqkIDLuEtTXhncLTsSEhkhlyVkQDpOXrEcFXh1%2FUxjcUZH1q7znoZ%2B9je4g1e8OLrPnA7VJzRKjrrz5nuCN%2BPJezACLYxdGGMaur92pDUuwC9U7o5lbToLrv6%2FQHmL1Fn&df=1&fta=eNo1kUluIzEMRe8ioL2WqLEoeJNNdrmCodKQLrScEqKy4%2B4gd28Nye6B%2FCQ%2FPh1q%2FKxokNze8%2BXuciW2IgOB5JHP7BTq%2BdiR2cwQFKU2Axpt84H%2FtmJrCk1ry4HUXgu%2B3a7xffM2PxC44KLp%2FqI0HJix5dY0fz7wvuf7%2Fgto69u9bginUm5neip7Pfwe4nnRTDw9dxPNQnGvkdit3ajIkWxhuAPd7PJ1CU5J%2BWApAo9Od2AxiV4JKXBuZktS6BXnWeqasCSpUwfqwYsGXgsTeAfqNFsHyDXBgCUsqsEapIIwKwbYAOPHwgZGiQkQpkanqOYeRt0AIdhcCD7NcaB6apiRvbWmJOatFP0qJhitB4QEdIJSfAJ1coDnZo6vSbnxvJbUsRcX6iXHt9fj90%2BCC5Kre1x6qC3HgKJnicR9EPvyjXdiHVL8%2FPr6D7E5pFo%3D&fta_ind=7&fs=1

It's only got a variomatic attached to it instead of a gearbox (you could change that), which is a Dutch-invented automatic transmission.

 

[angel]

Fitting this engine to an R4 involves a lot of modifications, since it has the ancillaries (pulleys, water pump) on the timing chain end. It needs work equivalent to that of a transverse R5 engine (changing the coolant flow direction, lenghtening the camshaft to accomodate the drive pulley and a lot of other minor stuff), so I think it may not be worth the time and effort.

 

[jeffr4]

This was end of oktober last year and after the 956cc engine was build-out, I had a nice R4 relax-chair to enjoy my beer and today I finally started again by positionning the sensor on the GTL-gearbox and make a holder.

 

[jeffr4]

I had the sensor placed on top of the GTL gearbox, but there is a different pattern of mountingwholes on the flywheel r5 Alpine than that of the super5 and it schould be on the side, so measure exactly and fit and created a holder.




http://jeffr4.weebly.com/project-1400-cc-monoinjectie-4.html bottom

Maart 2012 de sensor verplaatsen naar de zijkant

 

[alewis]

I have done almost the same for my F4 Gordini Turbo project, I cheated however and just used the alpine gearbox backing plate with new holes drilled so it would bolt onto the R4 gearbox. Should post some pictures really!

 

[jeffr4]

There are two additional reasons to the super5 1.4 injection engine in the Renault 4, except for more power, a modern engine with a better regulated management and emissions.
1-there is now (manufactor/supplier in Hungary and France) to obtain an E-85 ethanol kit for this type of central peak and hold injectors, so the R4 also can drive on bio-ethanol.
2. the dutch firm DSM has since one year the invention into practice with the American company POET to manufactore ethanol out of waste-plants and will invalidate the discussion food-for-fuel. So to use the waste of plants !!

So for me, this is the future driving with my R4 with a modern 1400 cc engine with a suitable bi-fuel injection kit, economical, environmentally friendly and cheap.

So no slow polluting oldtimer petrol engine, because I can drive with the current recessed already on ethanol and soon even environmentally conscious, using the new technique to drive on waste-plants!
http://www.nwtonline.nl/nl/nieuws/17898/dsm-wil-bio-ethanol-uit-maisafval.html it is in dutch, but you van use google-translate

http://e85bioethanol.com/ the suitable kit for the renault injection

 

[angel]

Very interesting!
2CVers in Sweden (and the Netherlands if my memory serves me correctly) are already running on E85 by fitting larger or bored out carburettor jets. There was even an adjustable main jet available, if one wished to run on petrol!
I have no idea what they did so that the plastic / rubber pieces in the fuel system stayed together (and don't forget the fuel tank, later 2CVs had a plastic unit) as ethanol can literally melt them. If this compatibility problem is solved, any R4 can be easily converted to run on bio-ethanol, which is good news!

 

[jeffr4]

For many years cars drive continue on bio-ethanol E85 in South America,as also for example the Mexican VW beetle. Since they have so much experience ,it shows no problems, certainly not this more modern Renault 1.4 injection. The injector and fuel pump are suitable and IF there is a increase of corrosion resistance in the tank, it's by the moisture that sits in ethanol or attracts. But that is no longer a problem on the 2nd generation ethanol.
In addition, there are specially coated pipes and a coated bosch pump and even possible to place the plastic tank of the 2CV with holder on the R4 instead of the metal.
So other then maybe the real oldtimers with their rubbers....

And I also feel a lot better after drinking some tsikoudia or raki with my hellenic-aderfos...jamas!!

 

[Azazello]

An old collegaue of mine has driven his fiat uno 1100 with the red alcohol from supermarket for a few thousand kms, just drilling larger hole in the carburettor...