Gas gauge and turn signal problem

[wineworks]

Hello. A couple of days ago I had to change the speedometer cable, so I removed the panel beneath the steering wheel to make the fix. Since then I've noticed that when activating the turn signals they don't flash but remain lit instead. Worse, when the turn signal lever is engaged the gas gauge shifts up to "full".

I've looked through the Haynes manual but cannot make sense of the wiring diagrams, so I can't tell which cable connection to check. (I'm not even sure if my 1986 R4 TL is covered in the book.)

Much thanks for any help.

 

[ggcton]

I had this problem and it was the earth wire which runs from the front of the inner wing to the alternator.
It ony takes a few minutes to remove and clean so I would do this first before getting too involved in other wiring.

 

[Azazello]

I had a similar problem and it was a ground cable fault... even in my car was the cable from the alternator to the negative pole of the battery, just tightened the nut...

 

[wineworks]

Much thanks for the replies. I checked the connections from the alternator to the inner wing (disconnected the bolt from the front and scraped it clean) then took a look at the wire from the alternator side. The problem persists.

Here are two photos, the first of the alternator wiring—among the bundle of wires going into the larger tube is the yellow one on the left, which is attached to the same terminal as the wire grounded to the wing. The second photo showing the bundle passing through the firewall to the dashboard beyond. Is is likely that the problem is indeed a wire connected to the alternator, but where it connects to the dashboard?

 

[wineworks]

Well, I think I know when I'm beat. After looking at every connection under the hood leading from the alternator to ground (except the one which counts, probably) and digging around behind the dashboard looking for yellow wires, I'm going to take the car into the garage and let the repairman take a look at it. You can't win them all, but there's still enough left to keep me busy. In fact, I have another question but that's for another thread...

 

[wineworks]

Hi, me again.

I've just returned from the Renault garage here near Bordeaux (the largest in the area) to check up on my R4 after almost three weeks during which they had it and I heard nothing from them. They told me that they had looked behind the dashboard and saw that there was "a lot that was wrong there", but that they didn't understand how to fix it, suggesting that I take it to a garage specializing in auto electrical systems.

(Of course, this was why I took it to the Renault garage since I figured that they would have the documentation necessary to make sense of the car's electrical system...)

So I'll bring the car back to my regular mechanic who specializes in "ancient"—or, I should say, "collectible"—cars and will give him my copy of the Revue Technique for the R4 (the French equivalent of the Haynes manual).

The question is: is the electrical system for the R4 so ancient that an understanding of it has passed into the realm of such forgotten knowledge as alchemy and the search for the philosopher's stone?

 

[barnfind]

Modern garages have mechanics trained to replace rather than repair. A friend of mine worked in the accounts department of a large Ford dealer some years ago and he told me that the fitters were paid commission on new parts fitted! There is no incentive, therefore, to do a job which involves loads of diagnosis and then just a metre or so of wire and a few spade connectors to fix the problem.

Stick with your local man, is my advice.

 

[wineworks]

Ah, the age we live in...

 

[pepper]

To be fair to my local Renault garage, they have the cheapest main dealer prices in town.

And they have managed to sort out all of my electrical problems which have stumped even me!

My Wifes Twingo melted the wiring loom somewhere deep behind the dash and was causing all sorts of random faults, they diagnosed it correctly, and cut it all out very quickly indeed.

Renault 4 wiring is a piece of cake in comparison to a modern vehicle, the trouble is modern technicians only plug their computers into a diagnostic socket and find it very difficult to get any further.

My Kia dealer on the other hand was a total waste of space, when I first got my Sedona it was 18 months old so had 6 months manufacturers warranty left on it, so I went through it with a fine toothcomb before the warranty ran out.

On our first trip to France we all felt awful and I realised that we were getting gassed and on opening the bonnet I could see sooty exhaust gases around the top of the intercooler, (which sits directly on top of the engine). When we got home I stripped the intercooler off and the sound insulation to find everything melted where the exhaust gases were escaping from around the fuel injectors. I did a search and found that Kia had issued a technical bulletin showing to put larger washers on the injector bolts and there was a recall for it.

I took photos of the melted mess and then booked the car in for a service and to get the injectors sorted out, they rang me later on and told me the car was ready so I was happy and went out to pick it up, as I walked out to the car with the technician he says "I put your car on the computer and it said there was no leaking" I went off the wall, got my phone out and showed him the photos and said " well my mechanical hands say bloody different, I want the damm thing repaired and repaired properly with all new sound insulation the lot". I said "it took me ten minutes to take the intercooler and sound deadening off, why couldn't you be bothered?" I've never taken the car to them again!

 

[angel]

The little yellow wire is the charging warning lamp wire (goes to the dashboard). Check that it actually does this (even if the wire there isn't yellow!)

The dealers work on the principle: "plug in the diagnostic equipment-see what it reads-replace everything related" They have the "luxury" to replace an expensive component, see that it is not the cause of the fault, and return it on the shelf. Real fault diagnosis is very time consuming and unprofitable for them...
Unfortunately for them a Renault 4 does not have a diagnostic socket and is as rocket science to them, as is a modern car with CAN-bus to us (who don't have the factory diagnostic equipment).

 

[beagle]

Don't get me started on what the main Audi dealer want to replace on our A3.... :shock:

 

[wineworks]

All of these explanations and tales of woe are leading me very strongly to the conclusion that the interest I have always taken in my R4 (the ability to change the oil and tune-up myself) may have to go much deeper because there's not as much backup for replacement/repair out there as I thought. Makes me appreciate this web site all the more.

So now all I have to do is go pick up my car on Monday and hope that they don't have the happy idea to charge me for labor...

 

[jjad]

You 'just' need to find a mechanic who understands older cars (and so is probably older themself). Stick with the 4, I'm sure you'll get it sorted soon!

 

[angel]

A mechanic does not need to be old to understand old cars!
And what's more, a mechanic that does not understand cars as simple as old ones, but "fixes" modern cars by replacing parts without knowing why, should not be called a mechanic anyway!

 

[jjad]

Very true Angel