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Will a R5 Campus 1.4 Injection engine go into a R4?

DER FUDGEMEISTER

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Bon Jour /How do,

Amandine,my trusty old R5, has a few spots of 'Tin-worm' which in time will no doubt force me to have her put down:( as she will be beyond economic repair. I would be very reluctant to do this as she has been a fantastic car in the 2 and a bit years we have been together:hug:.
My plan is to either purchase a 'minter' of an R5 Campus and canibalise Amandine for spares OR use her 72,000 mile engine in a R4 c/w all the injection and catalyst stuff.
I ask the panel if this would be at all possible? Has anyone already done this?

Warmest Regards and Merci Bucket for your replies

Rick 'Fudgemeister' Horvath
 
The later R5s (Super five) with the transverse engine have the engine around all the wrong way. The pulleys for the waterpump and alternator are at the wrong end, so they aren't a straight swap into a R4.

The MK1 R5 engines with the same longitudinal layout as the R4 fairly well slot straight in.
 
Dank U Malcolm,

Hmm if the Renegade 912 crowd can fit Subaru, Chevy V8 or Mazda rotary engine's into a 1960's air cooled Porsche then it MUST be possible to fit a 1.4 Injection engine into a R4:)

Where there's a will there's a way {or a relative;)}

Rick
 
If you really want to!

In the cylinder head at the waterpump end there is a "L" shaped channel (approx 50mm x 30mm) that directs water to the radiator top hose. The impeller spins in a cavity beside it. At the other end of the head is a blanking plate held by bolts (6-8 from memory).

What to do?

1. Remove water pump.

2. Remove blanking plate at other end.

3. Have some-one weld the aluminium "L" shape at the blanking plate end. Remember that you have the original one at the other end as a reference for size/shape/thickness. Machine this weld so that it is a flat mating surface for the new waterpump gasket.

4. Grind away the original "L" so as to let water circulate through the head. Fit a new blanking plate gasket and attach plate.

I have paid to have this done on a 1289cc head/engine so that I could fit it in a Mk 1 Renault 5. It was a simple and inexpensive task for machine shop. I travelled many thousand kilometres without any cooling (or other) issues.

* You will have to check that all the drillings in the block are where you need them to take the engine mounts that you wish to fit. Do a "dummy fit" to check this and other clearance issues.


Hope this helps,


David
 
I'd not heard of this being done before. How did you organise drive for the waterpump - with the earlier cam? Also did you find any differences in the crank?
 
Cam etc

Now you're stretching my memory!
This was more than 20 yrs ago.
I'm currently trying to re-buy the car!

IIRC, I used a 1974 TL cam to give drive to the water pump. Presumably any profile R4/R5 cam could be used to get your desired level of tune. You just insert the cam from the timing gear end. A Welsh plug was removed from the cam "tunnel" at the flywheel end. Can't remember if I had to do anything about the whitemetal bearing located there. Don't think so. Just added an oil seal.

The problem that I had was that all this power was being put through the TL gearbox, which meant that 4,000rpm was 100km/h or 62 mph.


Regards,


David
 
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very good david m well remembered !!
all of the above applys in reverse when the 5 gordini engine is modded to fit rear engined r8 and alpines

back to r4 stuff
transverse c1e c1g c2j and c3j (injection) heads have different manifold spacings so no easy swaps
agreed carb off matching vehicle will work but carb will sit inclined as transverse engines lay back from vertical
also sump and oil pickup is inclined to match
c3j engine is designed for monopoint injection and dont work well converted to carbs as is detuned with soft cam
next question ?
 
Good Stuff indeed

It must be possible:)

With all this 'scrappage' lark going on what could be better than fitting a more {Alledged} Green engine C/W Catalyst into a R4.
Good point about the gearbox though. Could a 5 speeder be fitted too i wonder?

Rick
 
It (can) be possible, but there is TOO much work involved for no obvious reason.

I have been thinking for a long time, that it may be possible, using a R4 1108cc engine as a starting point, to fit the engine management from the early Twingo (SPi + ignition + catalyst).
Would that make sense?
 
Oh Deary me, my poor Amandine :-(

Are Karmic forces at work:confused:

Today i drove into town after work to attend a MIND committee meeting.
On the way there Amandine's N/S ball joint gave way :eek: and ...... :shock:
I don't know if she'll live yet but all this talk about engine transplants may have given her bad feelings:cry:

I guess old push rod engined Renaults DO have feelings too:hug:

Rick - With glass of Cognac to hand & feeling a bit sad
 
A little help

I'd not heard of this being done before.

Well I'm happy to help and add some experience from the antipodes. What I have described is from the Billancort parts bin, so it is completely standard/original. I do find over here that a lot of the "professional' repairs to early model Renaults are bodged. It's the 'aussie spirit or the mother of invention' attitude which, unfortunately, in the long run, renders the car a very expensive proposition to rectify.

As a general rule of thumb, I like to keep any car in its "original" appearnce. On the other hand I have no hesitation about improving the power/brakes etc when they have been a standard fitment. I have a Renault 6 that I think will go rather well with 1289/1397cc motor and a R4 GTL gearbox.


any differences in the crank?

No, Malcolm.
I used the block from a 1289cc engine from a Renault 12 which were hugely popular here.
Effectively, I just increased the engine size by changing the block and then the camshaft. I would highly recommend it. But livinig in the land of plenty as you do, you can pick up all sorts of R5 motors without going to the hassle that I did.


Regards,


David.









PS
the front crossmember for my Renault 4 van from Derfrancoze is not in stock yet. The mighty $ Australian is at a bit of a high against the UK pound. As this part is one of the few R4 bits not to rust (but is easily crumpled in a crash) does anyone on the forum have a seriouly good one to send O/S?
 
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