- Thread starter djoptix
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malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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Welcome to the forum. 20 R4s is rather a lot. That must have kept the neighbours guessing as they changed colours or the dents moved around between cars.
An uncle of mine went through maybe 15 R4s, but again sold his last one a couple of years ago. Really nice ones seem to be becoming more scarce these days. I'm on my 4th so some catching up to do.
Are you looking out for a new one?
An uncle of mine went through maybe 15 R4s, but again sold his last one a couple of years ago. Really nice ones seem to be becoming more scarce these days. I'm on my 4th so some catching up to do.
Are you looking out for a new one?
djoptix
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Luckily our nearest neighbour was about 600yds away and behind trees, otherwise they might have had something to say!
I haven't been on the lookout for a new one particularly, my dad is the fanatic. Although I have become rather interested in an engine swap, having been reading a few posts on the subject! Particularly the bit Mr Jelly posted about "100bhp is possible from a Mk1 R5 1.4". My current project thinking is this...
Earlyish shell with the chrome grille (already got one of these)
Bench seats front and rear (ditto)
Large Gordini alloys
Lower a click or two (big spanners at the ready)
Mk1 1.4 engine, definitely aim for 100bhp
5 speed transmission
Discs on the front (probably for the best)
So go for a very retro look on the outside, distressed paint like you see one some "rat look" VW Beetles and Type 2s. Keep the dash gear linkage and handbrake if possible.
At the moment I have a Citroen BX16v which is rather quick (160bhp in standard tune, weighs approx 1050kg, 0-60 in 7ish secs, 135mph) so I'm not looking to challenge this, but if one really can get 100bhp in a R4 that sounds like fun.
But a few questions...
1. Does anyone have any thoughts/info etc on the 5 speed transmission in a R4? What are the ratios like? I believe they upped the ratios in the GTL, all the R4s I've owned/driven have been 845cc. My ideal would be this box with a further 5th I suppose. What's the 5 speed box like and can you keep the over-block linkage when using it?
2. There seem to be several types of "Gordini" alloys, the ones I want look like this... what are they? Apart from "fat".
3. Are discs and the dash handbrake incompatible? I really want to keep the bench seats so if necessary I could relocate the handbrake to somewhere else on the floor...
I haven't been on the lookout for a new one particularly, my dad is the fanatic. Although I have become rather interested in an engine swap, having been reading a few posts on the subject! Particularly the bit Mr Jelly posted about "100bhp is possible from a Mk1 R5 1.4". My current project thinking is this...
Earlyish shell with the chrome grille (already got one of these)
Bench seats front and rear (ditto)
Large Gordini alloys
Lower a click or two (big spanners at the ready)
Mk1 1.4 engine, definitely aim for 100bhp
5 speed transmission
Discs on the front (probably for the best)
So go for a very retro look on the outside, distressed paint like you see one some "rat look" VW Beetles and Type 2s. Keep the dash gear linkage and handbrake if possible.
At the moment I have a Citroen BX16v which is rather quick (160bhp in standard tune, weighs approx 1050kg, 0-60 in 7ish secs, 135mph) so I'm not looking to challenge this, but if one really can get 100bhp in a R4 that sounds like fun.
But a few questions...
1. Does anyone have any thoughts/info etc on the 5 speed transmission in a R4? What are the ratios like? I believe they upped the ratios in the GTL, all the R4s I've owned/driven have been 845cc. My ideal would be this box with a further 5th I suppose. What's the 5 speed box like and can you keep the over-block linkage when using it?
2. There seem to be several types of "Gordini" alloys, the ones I want look like this... what are they? Apart from "fat".
3. Are discs and the dash handbrake incompatible? I really want to keep the bench seats so if necessary I could relocate the handbrake to somewhere else on the floor...
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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Sounds like you are planning much the same sort of project as me. I'm also going for early body with chrome and bench front seat, and with 1.4 5 speed from a R5 TX. I'm going for the completely standard look (everywhere apart from the engine bay). We can compare notes.
I'm planning to fit front discs and rear drums from the GTL. For my car (very early '68) I'll have to use the complete GTL front suspension as the castor angles changed right after mine was built. I haven't figured out the rear suspension - whether I can just bolt GTL drums on or if I'll have to fit the whole GTL suspension.
For the handbrake I'm keeping the dash mounted handbrake. It should be possible to keep the mounting of the lever on the chassis rail in the same place, and weld an extension to the bottom which would connect to the standard GTL handbrake cables with a long steel rod. Won't be any room for a mechanical fuel pump, but modern electric ones (without points) are good.
There are some details on the 5 speed gearbox ratios here: http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/about177.html&highlight=speed
That's comparing them with the GTL where top is already a gear higher than the 850 cars. Might be possible to fit the R4 differential into the 5 speed box, but I feel that would make the car way overgeared. It's possible to use the R4 gearbox top plate with the over engine linkage.
Don't know anything about the wheels, although it might be worth talking to the guy in cornwall who posted here a few days ago with some wheels.
I'm planning to start building my car in the summer. I think it'll make a nice car.
I'm planning to fit front discs and rear drums from the GTL. For my car (very early '68) I'll have to use the complete GTL front suspension as the castor angles changed right after mine was built. I haven't figured out the rear suspension - whether I can just bolt GTL drums on or if I'll have to fit the whole GTL suspension.
For the handbrake I'm keeping the dash mounted handbrake. It should be possible to keep the mounting of the lever on the chassis rail in the same place, and weld an extension to the bottom which would connect to the standard GTL handbrake cables with a long steel rod. Won't be any room for a mechanical fuel pump, but modern electric ones (without points) are good.
There are some details on the 5 speed gearbox ratios here: http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/about177.html&highlight=speed
That's comparing them with the GTL where top is already a gear higher than the 850 cars. Might be possible to fit the R4 differential into the 5 speed box, but I feel that would make the car way overgeared. It's possible to use the R4 gearbox top plate with the over engine linkage.
Don't know anything about the wheels, although it might be worth talking to the guy in cornwall who posted here a few days ago with some wheels.
I'm planning to start building my car in the summer. I think it'll make a nice car.
djoptix
Enthusiast
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Hmm, interesting points on the gearboxes. Strange that the 5 speed is so close in terms of top ratio to the 4 speed. Mind you if the 4 speed on the GTL was high anyway I suppose it makes some sense. If the 1.4 is torquier anyway that would make it better.
Will the standard boxes handle some extra power? Anyone have any experience of this...?
I've spoken to Bryan in Cornwall about the wheels, might be making a road trip after Christmas to get them. Still unclear about which Gordini wheels are which...
Incidentally I've got some one-piece rear windows, these will be going into this car if it becomes a reality
Will the standard boxes handle some extra power? Anyone have any experience of this...?
I've spoken to Bryan in Cornwall about the wheels, might be making a road trip after Christmas to get them. Still unclear about which Gordini wheels are which...
Incidentally I've got some one-piece rear windows, these will be going into this car if it becomes a reality
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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andy.sherlock's car has the normal Gordini alloys. Cuno's car has another sort. The ones in your photo are less common. Not sure where they come from. Should get some photos from Bryan if the exact type is important.
I think the change from 850cc to 1108cc was a lot to do with economy. Rather than a little engine revving it's nuts off, the GTL had a slightly larger engine which could cope with crazily high gear ratios. The 850 would be good for 35-40mpg, and the 1108 good for 45mpg.
I've never heard of one of these gearboxes failing which suggests they are more than up for the job.
I think the change from 850cc to 1108cc was a lot to do with economy. Rather than a little engine revving it's nuts off, the GTL had a slightly larger engine which could cope with crazily high gear ratios. The 850 would be good for 35-40mpg, and the 1108 good for 45mpg.
I've never heard of one of these gearboxes failing which suggests they are more than up for the job.
E reg...The alloys on the orange 4 are Mk1 Renault 5 Gordini Turbo alloys. I'm greedy and have 4 sets of those! Also have a 5 TL with the 5 speed HA1 box which takes the top plate from the R4 gear box for the over the top change.
Looks like a few of us are thinking along the same lines mechanically at least.
I have a 5 Gordini engine and box and most other Gordini bits (torsion bars, brakes etc) to Gordini a 4 and also bought an ex 5TS racer recently with the 1289cc engine. I also have a complete and running but very rotten Gordini, the bits of which may end up in the racer and back on the road.
That will leave the 1289 engine going spare but as I'm presently running around in an F6 van, that seems the favourite place for it at present. We'll see. Still need a nice GTL though!
The last of the MK1 5s was made in 1985 I think. My TL is a 1984 on a B reg
Looks like a few of us are thinking along the same lines mechanically at least.
I have a 5 Gordini engine and box and most other Gordini bits (torsion bars, brakes etc) to Gordini a 4 and also bought an ex 5TS racer recently with the 1289cc engine. I also have a complete and running but very rotten Gordini, the bits of which may end up in the racer and back on the road.
That will leave the 1289 engine going spare but as I'm presently running around in an F6 van, that seems the favourite place for it at present. We'll see. Still need a nice GTL though!
The last of the MK1 5s was made in 1985 I think. My TL is a 1984 on a B reg
angel
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I saw a disc brake mod recently that used the dash mounted handbrake. Instead of a steel rod,the guy had fitted a handbrake cable that ran from the handbrake lever to roughly the point where the front seatbelts are mounted on the floor.It was then coupled to a yoke so that the two handbrake cables could be connected.It worked fine and didn't look out of place.
djoptix
Enthusiast
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Interesting, Angel, was it a cabled system?
My thoughts on it so far have been the same as Clementine's, ie some kind of hinged rod which will enable the dash handle to pull less cable length, but with more force.
I've been scouring this forum and the wider Interweb for info on these engines. It seems that the 1397 and 5spd box with over-the-top shift is the way forward.
So onto the 1397 (excuse my noviceness, I know plenty about the 845cc but I've always been an 845-only purist up until now!) - am I right in thinking that the 1397s found on TS, TX and Gordini/Gordini Turbo 5s are all fundamentally the same but differ in levels of tune? So standard 1397 power = 63bhp, tuned (as in Gordini) = 93bhp, tuned + turbo (Gordini Turbo) = 110bhp?
So, alpineman, 4 sets of turbo alloys eh. Any tips on where to find them? U obviously have the knack!
My thoughts on it so far have been the same as Clementine's, ie some kind of hinged rod which will enable the dash handle to pull less cable length, but with more force.
I've been scouring this forum and the wider Interweb for info on these engines. It seems that the 1397 and 5spd box with over-the-top shift is the way forward.
So onto the 1397 (excuse my noviceness, I know plenty about the 845cc but I've always been an 845-only purist up until now!) - am I right in thinking that the 1397s found on TS, TX and Gordini/Gordini Turbo 5s are all fundamentally the same but differ in levels of tune? So standard 1397 power = 63bhp, tuned (as in Gordini) = 93bhp, tuned + turbo (Gordini Turbo) = 110bhp?
So, alpineman, 4 sets of turbo alloys eh. Any tips on where to find them? U obviously have the knack!
I have the same Gordini Turbo alloys I think you're looking for. I bought them last month and have since put them on my GTL replacing the standard Gordini alloys.
I am currently trying to turn my GTL into some kind of GTI Gordini. Its quite a big project and it still needs lots of work like a full respray, interior work and an engine transplant (I have a 1.4 from a R5 TS waiting in the garage!)
The turbo alloys should pop up now and again- keep an eye out. Heres a photo of my car so far. The wheels dont look bad plus they have pirelli p6 tyres on.
I am currently trying to turn my GTL into some kind of GTI Gordini. Its quite a big project and it still needs lots of work like a full respray, interior work and an engine transplant (I have a 1.4 from a R5 TS waiting in the garage!)
The turbo alloys should pop up now and again- keep an eye out. Heres a photo of my car so far. The wheels dont look bad plus they have pirelli p6 tyres on.
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I paid 120 for them off this renault 5 gordini site- http://www.r5gordini.info/xml/ForSale/ForSale.php
Right boys. Don't say I keep em all for me. Search this item number in ebay uk for those wheels you've all taken a shine to. 4598923629 They're actually listed under Renault 5 Alpine rather than Gordini. I may sell 1 or 2 sets of mine in the new year and I'll post them here first. (I didn't actually set out to own 4 sets, it just kinda happened!) Good luck with this set on ebay.
angel
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The handbrake mechanism was unchanged. He simply connected a single handbrake cable on the yoke piece (where the two cables meet on normal R4s) with some simple mod to keep it from turning around, I don't remember exactly how. This cable ran under the floor,then was coupled to a short threaded rod (to enable adjustments) then a yoke that connected the two cables for the rear wheels.
The 1397cc engines have basically the same blocks but the heads are totally different,on Gordini, Alpine and Alpine Turbo the heads are cross-flow with hemi combustion chambers.
The 1397cc engines have basically the same blocks but the heads are totally different,on Gordini, Alpine and Alpine Turbo the heads are cross-flow with hemi combustion chambers.
djoptix
Enthusiast
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Incidentally I 'found' an L that would be perfect for the 1.4 project, K reg (tax exempt and silver number plates) in dark green, with chrome, and the paint's gone through to red primer, it looked ace! Unfortunately the 845cc runs rather too well to be messing about with it, it seems a shame to remove it.