Buying advice needed

[iMacThere4iAm]

Hi all,
I'm in the process of buying my first R4 and it's not easy!
I'm living in France until the end of May, and my goal is to drive back to the UK in a quatrelle. Over the following year, I'm going to do some restoration and rally modifiction and represent Britain in the 4L Trophy 2013.
Here in Haute-Savoie, there are not as many R4s on the road as you might see down south (heavily gritted roads in winter).

Unfortunately the Price Guide seems to have disappeared (Malcolm?) so I need some advice here.

I've viewed a couple of cars but I'm not sure if they're worth the asking price.

This 1989 GTL is asking 1400€. The chassis is rust-free although there are a couple of patches on the driver side floor, the exhaust and the rear wings. The interior is good, apart from a big rip in the driver's seat. The engine runs without trouble and the car has just passed its Contrôle Technique.
I have just offered 1000€ (my budget). The car's been on the market a couple of months and I think it's a little overpriced, so hopefully the seller will be flexible. Edit -- Already sold. Bugger.

This 1987 ex-Gendarmerie, ex-Trophy TL has been through it all but is very cheap (the seller's not expecting more than 500€, and I think I can get it for even less). The trouble is, the seller has never actually used or worked on the car and he doesn't know what problems it might have. For a start, it has a flat battery and, I suspect, an underlying problem that caused it to go flat. It might be minor, it might be crippling, but I think I will call a professional to decide!

Then there is this 1989 TL which I am going to see this weekend. The seller describes it as having a good chassis but rusty bodywork, and an air leak in the carburettor. I'll report back once I've taken a look.

Any thoughts?

 

[malcolm]

Price guide is offline just now for a rewrite - some were finding it misleading. Doesn't work in France anyway - they are cheaper over there for the same bodywork condition.

Personally I much prefer the 1108 (GTL/Clan) over the 956 (TL Savanne). The gearing on the Clan is more relaxed, fuel economy is better, and they aren't so desperately slow.

Clan looked reasonably priced from the photos, the middle link doesn't work but it's best to avoid trophy cars as they've been messed with and then abused by students. Last one looks like it will need a repaint which would cost more than getting one that doesn't.

Should go a good one - much cheaper in the long run, and you've a better chance of finding one in France. Mechanicals tend to be poorly adjusted in France so they'll all have faults even if they forget to mention them, but the body, chassis and interior are the important bits.

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

Thanks for the tips Malcolm. This weekend was a complete washout - Both of the cars I had planned to see had already been sold.
I think I'll give that ex-trophy TL a miss for the reasons you mentioned.

But there are a whole new crop on LeBonCoin which I should get a chance to see next weekend

---
I just learned a handy trick for searching leboncoin.fr: Put "Renault 4" in quotation marks to avoid useless results such as 'Renault Clio 1.4L'.

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

Wow, five appointments this weekend! Here's what the ads say:

This '93 Clan GTL needs a new train arrière and a Contrôle Technique. I'm not exactly sure what the train arrière is but it's very nearby so I'm going to check it out tomorrow.

This '87 GTL needs two new tyres to pass the next CT but is otherwise good.

This '84 R4 of unspecified model needs a new windscreen and CT.

This '89 R4 of unspecified model (it has a sunroof, does that help identify it at all?) is going for its CT today, so hopefully all will be well when I check it out on saturday.

This '88 Clan GTL has sadly no other details apart from the CT is valid.

Any thoughts or opinions on these would be helpful! The price is less relevant than the practicality of driving it back to Britain with minimal prior maintenance/paperwork.

 

[paulandpat]

Train arriere is back axle / rear suspension - might be those notorious rear suspension mounting points!

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

I just drove a 4L for the first time and it is SO MUCH FUN!

This one - '91 GTL, previously Trophied but in nice condition all the same. One nasty rust patch on the double-skinned section of the rear suspension mount, but no trouble in the Contrôle Technique. Price: 1200€.

Photo notes: The floor pan has had some welding work done on both sides, with a huge plate tacked on the driver side.

The rear pillar bases are pretty clean with just a little surface rust on the RHS.

The only major problem is the rust hole on the LHS rear chassis in the double-skinned section around the torsion bar mounts. The other side looks pretty good. I guess this would need fixing before the MOT?
There is also a big dent in the chassis arm near the rear bumper, I didn't get a photo but I don't think it's MOT failing.

Otherwise there are a few dents and rust spots on the bodywork but nothing a few replacement panels and some paint can't fix.

I'm pretty keen on this one, and I'll decide whether to buy it tomorrow after I've viewed one other.

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

Going to see one more today - will let you know how it goes later!

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

This 4L seems to have had a very easy life compared to yesterday's.
The interior is clean and mostly original, thick green carpets have been fixed to the floor (I couldn't see what its condition was like underneath).

The chassis has no major rust although it is covered in a thick layer of cow poo, dust and what might be 'Blaxon', maybe one of you can help me identify it?

The bodywork is mostly good with just a few panels showing bad rust.

Mechanicals are all functioning fine but don't show signs of having been touched in a long time - I reckon maintenance has been minimal. This is clearly not a car that has been mucked about with by students!

I didn't get to drive the car because I was in a bit of a hurry.

Unfortunately, the seller has a bit of a 'take it or leave it' attitude and didn't try to tell me anything about the car's history or quirks.

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

More photos

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

I'm dithering between the two at the moment - the student-modified but within-budget blue/silver 4L with the pencil on the roof, or the more expensive old farmer's white 4L complete with poo underneath?

My head says get the white one as it's more likely to pass its MOT on arrival in Britain, whereas the silver one probably won't without some welding.

But my heart pulls strongly to the silver one, because honestly, I'm the type of student that mucks around with cars. The white one would be better off with someone that will restore her to as-new condition, not someone who will paint her in silly colours and drive across the desert. And I have all the time in the world to do the necessary work once I get home.

 

[malcolm]

Looks a lot better that one. One thing to note is the rust above the rear wing is a pain to sort out neatly - means this kind of thing: http://www.renault4.co.uk/gordini-rear-body-repair.htm Needs wings all round too. No idea what the poo is underneath - can't see evidence of rust.

I'd have that over the student car, but both are a project.

 

[pepper]

White one over the silver one, for me. They both have issues, need work and the white one looks a lot better place to start.

For me condition is all, I'd rather have a good body with poor mechanicals over good mechanicals with poor body, any day of the week.

There will be plenty of work to do to the white one, to keep a student occupied for a long time!

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

Thanks for your again for your help. However, I have gone completely against it and bought the silver one! I had you two prefer the white and two other people preferred the silver one, so I used my casting vote and bought the one I knew the most about

So expect a whole lot more threads from me asking for help, starting now!

 

[mike4gtl]

clan for me too