Gasket set question

[Homegrown]

Bought gasket set brand Viktor Reins.
Everything looks good except cylinder shim/gaskets are not paper typ but in some plastic material see picture.
Anyone have experience from this type of cylinder shim/gasket.
Best regards from Sweden

 

[angel]

"Paper" seals were made from a material Renault called Excelnyl. As long as these seals are some 0,1mm thick (not 1mm as is the case with earlier copper seals) I would use them. Reinz is a trustworthy company after all.

 

[Homegrown]

"Paper" seals were made from a material Renault called Excelnyl. As long as these seals are some 0,1mm thick (not 1mm as is the case with earlier copper seals) I would use them. Reinz is a trustworthy company after all.

I also feel Reinz is a ok brand but get a bit confused though the shims is plastic.
I try to fit them same manner as the paper gaskets.
Another question all timing chain and sprockets are wearn out and no source seems too have them. It’s a 845cc billancourt.

 

[petak]

Did you try here

Der Franzose - Europas Top-Ersatzteile für französische Oldtimer: Citroën, Peugeot, Renault

Entdecken Sie Europas größten Ersatzteilhändler für französische Oldtimer: Citroën, Peugeot, Renault, Panhard, Simca, Talbot. Über 36 Jahre Erfahrung und weltweiter Versand.

www.franzose.de

Or here

Parts and accessories for old cars | Melun Retro Passion

Specialist in the sale of car parts and accessories for vintage cars from 1900 to 1980. Specialist Renault 4L R4. Online order. Secure payment.

www.melun-retro-passion.com

Or here

Renault 4 onderdelen

Onderdelen voor uw Renault 4 , alle modellen van 1961 tm 1993.

www.renault4onderdelen.nl

At this Netherlands web shop i managed to find sprockets for 688-712 engine. And guy there was very helpfull finding right part .

I have also bought plastic paper gaket for cilinder liners. Had same question about them but guy that works a lot on r4 engines said he use them also and they are alright. I chouse to belive him and will use them when engine rebuild is on schedule.

 

[Homegrown]

Did you try here

Der Franzose - Europas Top-Ersatzteile für französische Oldtimer: Citroën, Peugeot, Renault

Entdecken Sie Europas größten Ersatzteilhändler für französische Oldtimer: Citroën, Peugeot, Renault, Panhard, Simca, Talbot. Über 36 Jahre Erfahrung und weltweiter Versand.

www.franzose.de

Or here

Parts and accessories for old cars | Melun Retro Passion

Specialist in the sale of car parts and accessories for vintage cars from 1900 to 1980. Specialist Renault 4L R4. Online order. Secure payment.

www.melun-retro-passion.com

Or here

Renault 4 onderdelen

Onderdelen voor uw Renault 4 , alle modellen van 1961 tm 1993.

www.renault4onderdelen.nl

At this Netherlands web shop i managed to find sprockets for 688-712 engine. And guy there was very helpfull finding right part .

I have also bought plastic paper gaket for cilinder liners. Had same question about them but guy that works a lot on r4 engines said he use them also and they are alright. I chouse to belive him and will use them when engine rebuild is on schedule.

Thanks petak.
The Netherland shop seem to have everything I need, Melun and Fransose are out of stock or only have parts of timing gear set.
https://www.renault4onderdelen.nl/ is new for me, but they seem to have what I want.

Gasket shims for the liners I then use what Reinz provided.

Have been working on cars all my life, but Renaults just a few year. So its first time I repair a 845cc engine. Coming from German engines it's fun to see all clever solutions and some maybe not so clever. I love that every pice of the cars are optimised. No extra material anywhere, good quality on all material they use.

 

[JdeW]

The Netherland shop seem to have everything I need, Melun and Fransose are out of stock or only have parts of timing gear set.
https://www.renault4onderdelen.nl/ is new for me, but they seem to have what I want.

https://www.renault4onderdelen.nl/ formerly know as R-Quatre.nl is a very trustworthy site and the owner (Willem-Jan) with an exeptional age, is an allmighty Renault knownledge base with over 60+ years of his own Renault garage experience and Renault racing as well.
When I order parts and collect them at his place you're glued at his place with coffee and hours of talking about the good old days.
Willem-Jan is one of a kind.

 

[petak]

This web is known to me for few years now, and it is real refreshment comparing to Franzose.
It looks like he is offering only few parts but actually he has everything you need.

And Willem-Jan is really great.

He take ekstra time to find cheapest shipping to Croatia. And finally apologizing to me for so high shipping prices.
If it has anything to do with him.

If you have any question just send him email thru contact form.

And it is possible to pay with paypal although i could not manage to find that on web.

 

[Homegrown]

What gasket set brand is best, price worth, cheapest.
Almost all brand names are new to me. I only recognize Viktory Reinz so l bought it cos I know they are ok brand.
God if we can help each other were to buy and what brand.
Viktory Reinz high price and quality
Ajusa ?
Other brands?

Seen head gaskets that looks top notch and also something the dog took in.
Feedback pros and cons

 

[petak]

Where ever i can i use Victor Reinz.
What they do not have i use what i can find Payen, Ajusa

 

[Homegrown]

Thanks for answers!
Still my first Renault engine rebuild so have some questions about the sump gaskets.
Seem to me that the front sump gasket is totally wrong in size, guess I have to cut it down so it fits inside the growe closest to the flywheel.
The cork gaskets are they installed dry or you use Permatex on one/both sides?
Where gaskets meet in 90^ angle i put tiny sealant in

 

[angel]

After lots of swearing and fails trying to persuade both cork strips to stay in place, and adding the fact that both of them are almost invisible with engine on car (so that I couldn't see if they were in place when the sump was back on), I threw them away. Instead of them I used a thick - around 5mm - and uniform bead of good RTV sealant (Permatex Supra Black or Grey is excellent), keeping the side cork gaskets. Worked a treat on 3 or 4 cars I have used this technique.
For side gaskets I use a sealant like Hylomar or Indian Head.
Be aware that you should first fit flywheel, then sump!

 

[Homegrown]

After lots of swearing and fails trying to persuade both cork strips to stay in place, and adding the fact that both of them are almost invisible with engine on car (so that I couldn't see if they were in place when the sump was back on), I threw them away. Instead of them I used a thick - around 5mm - and uniform bead of good RTV sealant (Permatex Supra Black or Grey is excellent), keeping the side cork gaskets. Worked a treat on 3 or 4 cars I have used this technique.
For side gaskets I use a sealant like Hylomar or Indian Head.
Be aware that you should first fit flywheel, then sump!

Thanks fore sharing your experiences and remind me about put on flywheel first (had put sump first otherwise) thanks.
I will try put gaskets the way it's done from factory, so I will cut down the oversized one to fit the cavity on the flywheel side. There is a lot of tricks how to but not for Billancourt/Venteux sump.
- some say put the cork in water to make them flexible.
- some say spray glue "against block side".
- some say use old school permatex and silicon in the 90^ gasket junktions.

I guess a lot of you have made this how was your way to succes or misery?

 

[angel]

It seems that modern gasket sets have mismatched parts...either too wide like yours, or too thick, which was the case on some sets I got. Problem was that front and rear sections would not allow the sides of the sump to touch the side gaskets wihtout having to deform the sump by overtightening...that's how I decided to use RTV.
Remember that Renault themselves ditched the four piece gasket originally fitted to Cleon engines in favour of RTV sealant, and factory sealing methods of the '60s ('40s actually when it comes to the Billancourt engine...) were not that efficient.

 

[Homegrown]

It seems that modern gasket sets have mismatched parts...either too wide like yours, or too thick, which was the case on some sets I got. Problem was that front and rear sections would not allow the sides of the sump to touch the side gaskets wihtout having to deform the sump by overtightening...that's how I decided to use RTV.
Remember that Renault themselves ditched the four piece gasket originally fitted to Cleon engines in favour of RTV sealant, and factory sealing methods of the '60s ('40s actually when it comes to the Billancourt engine...) were not that efficient.

Gaskets and sealants are a bit complicated or very easy dempending on approach.
I try to use the proper technique to the application. Modern cars are often RTV based technology machined flat to flat surface.
When working on Porsche engines from 1960-90 we use at least three different seals (Trebond 1211, CurilT, Loctite 574) they have also machined surfaces that should be glued and/or sealed.
None of above is supposed to use with cork gaskets. And the Billancourt is designed with old tech sealing. Machines surface to tin sump that have some flex and imperfections. I think when engines where new from factory they didn't leak oil. They had better gaskets and the correct sealant. So I want to go old school and want advise to do it as good as possible. If it don't work out I also go RTV route.
If I do everything right it should work.

 

[Homegrown]

Cut down the cork gasket that was way to big in my bandsaw to 10x138mm then I put gaskets that should be installed in a radius in tension to make it easier to use them.
Haven’t made up my mind how to install them yet

 

[AndyMcDonnell]

Thanks for the information everyone. My sump is wet around the edges and is on the list for investigation soon. Thank you ‘angel’ for the tip for using Permatex Supra Black - I’m ordering before I even start the task now I can see how the crank main bearing seals intend to make oil tight.