Heavy steering

[bison]

Folks,
If it isn't one thing it's another!
The steering, when driving, is quite a wrestling match, not that it bounces around or anything, it's just very heavy. Driving in a straight line it's fine, IE light and normal. When turning corners however you really have to use some muscle, even at speed you really have to hold onto it or it would immediately fly straight ahead to the outside of the corner, so much so in fact that my missus can't drive it, she can't hold onto the steering wheel to keep it tracking round a corner. Checked the ride hight, tracking, length of tie rod, steering rack shims, tyre pressures, ball joints, all seems to be OK. I can't remember my previous R4's being like this, however there was a large time period between cars. Oh yes, this is on both locks. Any ideas?.
Alan.

 

[malcolm]

Sounds like tracking. It it was set by some tyre place it's likely a mile out. I would suggest buying a long stick, cutting it perfectly to length so it just touches the rear of the front wheel rims when you (and a friend) position it at the rear of the rims across the underneath of the car, then see what the gap is when you move it to the front of the rims. That will give you much more accuracy than the tyre places.

Edit - pushed the brain into gear and it reported likely too much toe out at the front. If your tyres are also wearing on the inside I can rest my case.

 

[bison]

Hi Malcolm,
That was quick!. I agree it sounds like tracking, so here's how I checked it. Long straight 2"x4", held touching the front and rear of the FRONT tyre, check gap at rear tyre remembering the rear track is 3" narrower than the front, about 1.5" gap between the 2"x4" and the front of the REAR tyre on each side. This doesn't take into acount the difference in wheelbase from one side to another, but it's pretty close. To back this up I just got the tape measure out and measuring front and rear of front tyres it's very very close to being 0 degrees, parallel. That is exactly the feeling when driving, the outside wheel is not tracking round the corner but pointing to the outside somewhat. IE when cornering the track is toed out.
Alan.

 

[malcolm]

There might be some room for inaccuracy in your measurements.

Better to go off the front wheel rim rather than the tyre - tyres are all over the place. I don't have the manual to hand (so you'll need to check yours for any certainty) but I think the spec is between 1 to 5mm toe out at the front. That's the difference between the rear of the front wheel rim and the front of the front wheel rim. The rears are done on their own and wouldn't be involved in the front tracking.

 

[bison]

I've got one of those adjustable washing line poles, that should do the trick, I'll check it tomorrow night.
Thanks Malcolm, if you come up with anything else please let me know.
Alan.

 

[tim1casa]

I wonder if you should just jack the front of the car up on a couple ofaxle stands, so both wheels are off the ground, and see if the steering is any freer. It would be the simplest way to check if the steering rack, in case its seizing or similar.

 

[bison]

Hi Tim,
Tried that, the steering is quite light when jacked up, but I lightly greased the rack anyway, but that leads me to a geometry problem. I'm going up north tomorrow to help my friend work on his R4, I'll have a drive in that and compare, perhaps I'm just to used to driving modern cars?.
Thanks,
Alan.

 

[DavidN]

If it's not a problem of the steering rack or the tracking itself it could be the front axle balljoints.
When unloaded (car jacked up) - easy to spin, when loaded - seized.

The steering of an R4 should be easy (small tyres, low weight, good ratio of the steering rack).

David

P.S.
Front toe out should be somewhere between 0 and 4 mm measured at the rim, not the tyre.

 

[bison]

The ball joints may be a suspect, mind you, it's just passed it's MOT so there's no play, seems though that the problem is the opposite, the steering isn't stiff, in fact, it want's to return to straight ahead too easily if anything, it's just heavy, not when you initially turn the steering wheel, it gets progressively heavier the more you turn it, and speed also has an influence, when going round a roundabout quickly, you really have to have a firm grip on the wheel, otherwise you would be straight into a field, which makes me think the geometry isn't quite right.
Alan.

 

[angel]

the steering isn't stiff, in fact, it want's to return to straight ahead too easily if anything,

You said it all! Definitely there is no problem, the steering and front wheel geometry work as they are supposed to be. You may be right, you are used to modern cars, more than you are to a R4! Don't worry, the opposite happens to people who use R4s as everyday cars...and wish they could turn the power steering on most modern cars off.

 

[bison]

Hi Angel,
I think you're right, I didn't have a chance to drive my friends R4 yesterday, but the more miles I do the less it seems to be a problem. I'll keep an eye on the tyre wear though.
Thanks,
Alan.