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Points Gap

ilocke

Enthusiast
Messages
15
Hi, can anyone tell me why my 4F6 van with an 1108cc engine runs badly when the points are set at 15 thou, and the timing set at 6 degrees BTDC with a strobe light and yet runs great at 10 thou also with the timing set at 6 degrees BTDC. I thought the points gap was 15-19 thou, am I wrong?
PS the distributor is a ducelier and the Carb is the dreaded 28 IF!!
 
My handbook suggests a points gap of 16 thou (0.4mm). I guess the smaller points gap will give more dwell so might be compensating for wear in the distributor shaft. Have you tried a dwell meter? If distributor wear is the problem then you might find you have just about the right amount of dwell with the reduced points gap.

I've often found R4s tricky to get just right. I think they run a little too lean on that tiny carb which makes them sensitive to everything else.

:clementi:
 
points

Yes, I agree Clem, R4s are tricky to get right, I am suspect about my distributor anyway as it is from a 4GTL and does not obviously have the right curves etc, So if anyone has a distributor which is the right one for a 4F6 i'm getting desperate, please contact me.
The zenith 28If is i feel a little too weak for the job , you have to be so careful not to gety air leaks as these make the vehicle difficult to drive.
Also, i have found several R4s in the past that would just not run at tickover, it took months of cleaning and rejetting an 850 Carb once only to find out that the inlet manifold bolts were loose and causing a leakby, tightening them up instantly solved months worth of problems.
I find on my 4F6 that i cannot get the van to run properly even in the summer unless i use the winter setting for the air intake pipe, i have changed the thermostat with no change to this, again perhaps its the low spec carb.
 
The GTL distributor will be the right one for your van. Have you checked the condition of the vacuum unit? Take the dist cap off, attach a hose to the vac unit and suck it. You should see the points move - if not that will be part of the problem.

The other problem you've got (along with many others) is the 28IF carb. If you look through earlier threads, I've written quite a bit about converting to the R5 Mk1 carb.

Steve
 
Have you fitted new points ? or are you trying to adjust old worn ones.Pitted points can throw all you settings out . I have set my wifes GTL tuned to 2 degree's BTDC [without vacuum attached ] and a 57 degree dwell angle [running unleaded petrol] and CO percentage at 2% and it runs a treat but like the previous comment check that vacuum advance and also make 100% sure that the engine breather pipes are all clear especially the one with the restrictor valve in it.
 
points

Hi, thanks Liam, yes the points are brand new as is the condensor, rotor arm , cap and leads. The thing i need to get i think is most certainly a dwell meter.
The vacum works fine, i have checked that.
When i got the van it had only done 3000 miles and interestingly had an in-line brass insert in the vacum advance pipe, the insert had a very tiny hole drilled in it.
uncertain of why this was there i checked with a main dealer in 1987 and they informed me that it was a renault modification to reduce the advance, and was introduced to reduce pinking, if a customer complained.
With the modification inplace the advance is not so great, but is still quite strong.
Where the vacum advance lever attatches to the baseplate of the distributor there is an eccentric lobe with teeth on, it is secured with a circlip, now when the van reached 130,000 miles(52,000) miles ago the circlip and eccentric gear became detatched. i did re-attatch it, but as i have no other 4F6 or 4gtl to examine i do not know what tooth the gear was on and took my best guess!. Obviously this is quite important as the toothed gear creates the standing tension on the whole of the vacum advance and obviously if the tension is too great theres not enough Vacum advance, too low and there is too much. I have set it at a level which does not cause pinking, but it did use to pink in the summer even with the Renault Mod so it is obviously not correct.
This is one of the reasons why i am on the look out for another Dizzy (i have contacted you already about maybe one next week Liam).
I think it is fair to say that at 183,000 miles the distributor is probably going anyway, as is the carb.
I, like another member that i have read about, can screw the mixture screw hard in and it has little effect on the way the engine runs, several months ago it would have caused the engine to hunt and stall. so that is obviously not working correctly.
When everything is set correctly as the handbook says, the engine is 'lumpy, like as though something is imbalanced on normal acceleration in any gear, to get rid of this lumpiness i have to retard the ignition to a level that makes the van more like a milk float!.
You can see the lumpiness on the engine by just gradually speeding the engine up from tickover, it's almost as though it is firing on 3 and a half cylinders at around 2-3000 rpm, once retarded to an abnormal level it disappears. I can also get rid of it by advancing it to an abnormal level, but that just causes excessive pinking.
There is no misfire at tickover or any other condition, and she starts instantly, no matter how cold a morning, or whatever the ignition is set on.This is a strange one, and i'm hoping another dizzy and carb will make a difference. Ian
 
It may also be worth checking the compressions. At 180,000 miles there's a good possibility that air is seeping back through the inlet valves on the compression stroke thus weaking the mixture.

Steve
 
I just done an article on this subject on Retro

http://www.retro-renault.com/viewtopic.php?t=1944

have a read let me know what you think.

ilocke you have described what I found when I adjusted the dwell and timing to where it should be. The setting were way out on the car and put them back to where they should be. Opening the throttle by hand on part throttle the car would seem to drop onto 2 cyl's.

By retarding the vacuum advance toothed wheel the problem went away. This would be similar to the holed brass insert you have. When I started the wheel as set at the 4th tooth, its now at the first but I will advance it a bit more and see how it goes.
 
Hi Chris, very interesting indeed, i found exactly the same problem.
I read your article with interest, will try the toothed wheel and see what happens, i think mine is on the 8TH tooth!. Will let you know the results.
 
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