The Ridiculous Renault 4

[RichardIRL]

I am curious to hear others' thoughts on why people sneer so much at the Renault 4. There's an ill-feeling against the Renault 4 I have noticed, one which is specific to the Renault 4 - not simply a matter of taste which would be easier to understand.

For example, I often see middle-aged men in last-generation Merc E-class look down their noses at my Renault 4. There are sometimes disparaging remarks made about it in the motoring press. Few classic car anoraks have any respect for the Renault 4 as a piece of design. I understand that it was a stark, basic utilitarian car that nobody was ever meant to lust after, and I am also too young to remember the car when it was the equivalent of the Daewoo Matiz (very hard to imagine).

This article is exactly what I am talking about:

http://www.geocities.com/richardirl/itarticle.htm

(sorry about the background image, but highlight the text to read it)

I know this is not just an Irish thing, because when I had french visitors last summer, the man laughed at the Renault 4 in my driveway in the same sneery way (he had a Jaguar E-type and his son a Mini).

 

[malcolm]

I don't see this at all. I drive my Renault 4 around and feel the love.

I lent Ermintrude to my mother while I repaired her car. She drove it around Leeds for a couple of weeks and says she's never spoken to so many people in her life. There was a lot of enthusiastic interest in the car.

I've only had one issue. Just occasionally someone manages to catch up with me on the road. Only then is there a problem - they just assume that because I am driving a slow looking car I must be going slowly. They conduct a crazy overtaking manoeuvre and then hold me up for the next 10 miles.

I'm an automotive engineer (occasionally). I'll stand up for them on engineering grounds. There is a lot of extremely clever engineering in the 4. I would love to know how they organised the design process. Normally that sort of first principles thinking is ironed out. The only real failing of the R4 was rust.

I think La Poste has the answer. We chatted about marketing. Apparently the Renault 4 was advertised as "a very cheap car that can also be used as a small commercial vehicle". The 2CV was advertised as "your cuddly friend who's fun to be with"....

Marketing sticks. People think what they are told to think.

But I'd agree. They are quite ridiculous cars. They look a bit silly, make a silly noise, and while the handling is very good, it's achieved in a silly roly-poly way. I've been driving them for 12 years now, and still can't resist a grin. :lol:

 

[Cuno]

I also get a few sneers on behalf of my lovely R4. I just assume it's because the sneerers thinks that a car is a status symbol, and the R4, being old and simple, ought to have low status value. The sneers usually comes from someone who has got a status symbol type car, and so they outrank you. People are strange... But as the civilized R4 type person i am, i naturally ignore those people Or at least i try to. It's kind of nice to have such a powerful bozo repellant though.

But mostly i get smiles, and curious looks, people coming to talk about their old R4 memories, etc. So in total the positive things outnumber the negatives by far.


BTW: Apologies for that pretentious sig.

 

[Enrique]

Renault's slogan for the R4 in Colombia was "El Amigo Fiel" which means "The Faithful Friend". And it was exactly that for many many people. Here in Colombia buying a new car for most of the people has always been a paramount achievement. I think a more or less accurate point of comparison would be to say that for people in developed countries, buying a car is like for us buying a refrigerator. So the R4 was the only option.
Many people have a warm feeling for the R4 here in Colombia, but markets have opened and we too have gone into the "what you own is what you are" trend, and driving an R4 isn't as popular as it used to be. Funny part is that the R4 was most people's first car and many even regreted having sold it to buy a Sprint or the like. When I give someone a ride, most of them keep talking about the car during the whole ride (or are they just being polite?... well, who gives a s....).
I think here in Colombia, people must justify their "need" put their domestic budget in red numbers for driving a brand new shiny car (that looks like every other). One way to achieve that is giving the old cars many of us drive (we also drive a '74 R12 and a '78 LandCruiser) the "junk" status.
I think, in general the problem is not with the R4.

First thing I think about the article is: Doesn't the author have anything better to do with his time?
It's sort of teenagish to jump on the guy who dares to step out of the mould and act different than the masses

"For those of you who believe in progress, this could be a bad moment. There's an Irish Renault 4 website"

.
Are those old R4s out there causing accidents or massive contamination to make the subject worth an article? It's a very poorly written article, that sounds more like "the first stupidity that came to mind 5 minutes before deadline to fill a blank in the page".

Like I heard on TV: Don't trash em, restore them!

:yellowre: :wink:

 

[RichardIRL]

I have mostly completely positive reactions to my Renault 4. Even in its regal perch hidden from sight, the people who see it, 99.9% of the time it has been an admiring reponse. When I drive it (rarely), I doubt there's any other car that causes people to smile and look at it so much. That's most people.

But then there are these people...

I know the Renault 4 deserves to be a classic, and that it was engineered, designed, and 'lived' excellently. And it doesn't really bother me that the anoraks don't like it. But it does interest me. Why is the Mini held in such high regard? It had the first transversely installed engine, but I don't accept that it was a revolution (other than for the company that made it). It is totally overrated. Why are Hillman Imps considered classics, but not Renault 4s. I think Hillman Imps are completely forgettable and that is just one example.

That article annoyed me for many reasons - First, it was poorly written. The man who wrote it can't write, the jokes are bad (not because they make fun of the R4, but because they are not funny). It was sent to me in a draft form, and I assumed the final version would be decent, but I was wrong. It whole article seems really amateur and half-assed, the freelance journalist (as he called himself) either didn't make an effort or he's just not very good. I quite like Jeremy Clarkson, but he has a lot to answer for - every single motoring journalist tries to be like him and they succeed in all the wrong places.
I was a bit embarrassed when it was published. Personally, I felt that I came off badly from it. It made me out to be an old sadcase, and everyone else who likes the Renault 4. I asked him not to mention the Renault 4 boxer shorts for sale on one of the Renault 4 websites, but he did anyway. He also rephrased a quote I offered him and put it into a context, and made it sound worse. Thankfully, not many people read the article, or they were polite.

What Cuno said is very true. It's a real shame that cars are status symbols. It is true that for a lot of people, cars like the Fiat Panda, Honda Jazz, Renault Modus and Fiat Multipla would suit their needs much better than the cars they actually buy, but their appearance and lack of image or road presence means people are blind to their merits. That applies the SUVs. They have become popular because people see cars as status symbols, and the SUVs (literally too) elevate them. I used to disagree with people who argued against them, but more and more I tend to agree for different reasons. First, visibility. People say they enjoy the view of the road SUVs give them, but that view comes at the expense of everybody else. Second, safety. The SUVs are much higher off the ground than other cars, their bumpers are higher, and on a different scale other cars. This increases the safety of the people inside, but at the expense of those in normal cars, and especially pedestrians. Thirdly, it irritates me that SUV drivers think they own the road, and that the rules of the road do not apply to them. Fourthly, the environment. Cars should become more fuel efficient. It annoys me when people who mention the environment are branded tree huggers and rainbow warriors. The environment is everybody's concern, and if those who actually care continue to be a denigrated minority, we are all finished.

I know some people need those SUVs, and that some aren't as bad as others. There is a lot wrong with car manufacturing, and although cars are a passion of mine, I think we have paid a huge price for them, in terms of quality of life, landscape, money, lives etc.

 

[Mikadoo]

Hey,

I enjoyed reading this website and this forum. The repairs are fun to read.

I haven't got an R4 myself but an old R5 and a Renault Megane. It's funny whenever I drive the R5 I do get less "respect" on the road, when I drive the Megane people tend to give me space on the road just a little easier... So you do notice the difference in attitude. I don't think a car was such a status symbol when the R4 was still in production. Back then a lot of people covered their car with stickers, and it didn't have to be so shiny all the time.

But some of those silly people are still paying for their car on credit while mine was paid for 18 years ago!

 

[malcolm]

Hi Mikadoo, welcome, and thanks for joining the forum. A few of the other members have Renault 5s rather than 4s.

One of the reasons I got back into Renault 4 ownership in 2002 was cost. I was preparing to become self employed and generally unsuccessful in business. It astonishes me how much less I have to earn than everyone else. I much prefer not having money due to the occasional extended holiday rather than not having money because it's been wasted on depreciation and finance costs.

 

[La Poste]

What a load of rubbish (the article - not everyone's comments about it!). I wonder what the enlightened individual who wrote it considers to be a good car, and what he actually drives himself?

 

[djuka_renault]

I am curious to hear others' thoughts on why people sneer so much at the Renault 4. There's an ill-feeling against the Renault 4 I have noticed, one which is specific to the Renault 4 - not simply a matter of taste which would be easier to understand.

I know this is not just an Irish thing, because when I had french visitors last summer, the man laughed at the Renault 4 in my driveway in the same sneery way (he had a Jaguar E-type and his son a Mini).

When people think that the only thing you are driving is the R4 it usually is as you quoted but you can always show them the other car that is in the garage.
I have a Bentley, so they envy me on the R4! hehe

 

[Fred]

Call me crazy, insane...whatever ! All I know is that I got infected with the R4-virus fifteen years ago, when I was about 17 years old...All of my friends bought themselves a sportscar with biiiiig engines and the latest electronical stuff inside.
I totally rejected all of this bullsh*t, I wanted to go back to basics no matter what anyone said. I wanted to slide the windows manually simply to make fun out of my mates, two way-switching on the heating ; cold or warm, clutch that comes out of the dashboard ; BASIC RULED !!
We all had many laughs about all this dinosaur-aged stuff inside but I know one thing : No matter what dancing I got parked in front of ; every girl recognised my flashy-yellow R4 !! I'm not gonna tell you what happened next but I know one thing ; my Renault R4 got the attention on almost every parking lot and received plenty of laughs, simply because I always tried to park my car next to very classy cars !
So my R4 became more than just a car, it became a big f*ck you to all gigolo's that did endless efforts by buying quite expensive sportscars in the hope that this steely horse would cranck their ego up, because in the end, I also drove from A to B without electronical hasttle and god knows with their girl inside my R4, wahaha....
Nah, R4 is far more than just a car, it's a statement !!

 

[malcolm]

Welcome to the forum Fred,

I love your Renault 4 story. As "girl pullers" these cars rock - they filter out the girls that you wouldn't want to pull - let the Ferrari owners have those ones!

 

[Cuno]

As "girl pullers" these cars rock

Is that true? I really must get out to drive it around more often. No actually, i only know one girl that likes these cars. She is a really fun and likeable person though, so i guess there's some truth in it

A nice story Fred!
I drove my R4 on vacation this summer, about 1000km (what's that in miles??). It worked like a charm. I blew the glas bottle on the way home though, probably low on water + it was the hottest day of the summer + i pushed it too hard (going 90km/h / 55mph for a few hours straight), so i have only myself to blame. I tied the my water bottle to the jack, and drove home. Try that with a modern car!

 

[Fred]

Ooops...Did I start a 'girl-puller'-debate ? Wasn't my intention though, haha...
No, but It's true though ; Circumstances can really get quite ' ironical ' with driving an R4. Five months after I bought myself an R4, my friends also bought one, so all three of us were driving one. On saturday-nights, we made it a sport of parking next to sports-cars, meaning VW GOLF GTI's and such, you know...real ' eyecatchers '. When we got out of our R4's, we really did it with an attitude and fully dressed à la ' saturday-night '. Yep, girlies knew who was inside the club when they saw our R4's ; two yellow ones and one painted in black...
But what I really mean to say is that the R4 was HOT when we went out, we MADE it hot and even now, when I meet someone I used to date back then, the '...and I still recall you driving your R4...' - thing comes to surface, haha ?! Got 'em ?? See : I COULD have driven an old VW or Toyota or whatever, not that they're bad cars, but I didn't because even if it WAS an old GOLF, PASSAT, CIVIC...It wouldn't have the charm, the innocense and absolute rudimentary stuff inside like an R4, jeeses...Reminds me that once my clutch or gear-bar was quite harsh to move and all I had to do was put some grease between the bar and the rubber that runs over the engine and it became reeeaaally smoooth man !!!
Those simple things were sooo easy to do and were...mmm...well, quite ridiculous but at least one COULD still do some maintenance on a car, can't be said of the modern cars now can it ??
Come to think of it ; when I was at a gas-station fuelling my car up, I often used to slide my other hand over the back side-panel just to feel the curve it made...mmmmm.....niiiice bro'.... ! Haha, I'm not kidding man !! Hope my wife isn't reading this.
Anyway, when my car was hit by another - bigger - car, it was totally KO. I brought it to a plant that recycles old iron (??Sorry, don't know the exact name...) , stripped it ( removed the seats, frame, windows,engine...) and they made a pretty small cube out of the remaining thing (Carosserie ). I put the kärcher on it, left it to dry and put it in a block of plexi-glass.
It stands in my living-room as table-support with a glass table on it, quite sad but it still gets me thinking about the ' early R4-days ' though,haha...

 

[Cuno]

That boxed car is pretty famous huh? I ask because i recall seeing something like that on the internet some time ago...but i don't recall it being in plexi, may it was in the care of some other R4-aholic maniac Must be the coolest table ever, although i guess it is kind of heavy to move around??

 

[Fred]

Well, I don't really know how much it actually weighs, but it's pretty heavy allright. It can be moved quite easely now because I've put some slider-blocks underneath it, so it can be moved around just for cleaning the floor and stuff...
There's one downpoint about my table-support though, Its not high enough and doesn't reach the normal height of an average livingroom table, so I thought "...well, we'll adapt the chairs then..." but that was not such a good idea according to my wife, haha.
We bought some other table instead...
My 'crushed' R4 stands in my computer-room now. It's a shame really...

 

[Bluebell]

R4 appreciation

I agree with all of you that the R4 is not appreciated as it should in many countries. However in France people seem to have their priorities right especially in the country areas (which is most of France). Life is simple, people are canny with their money and practicality comes before ostentation. So as soon as I possibly can I am moving over there and the first thing I will look to buy will be an R4. Vive la France!

 

[La Poste]

A wise move indeed, but buy the R4 in England before you come to France - they are much more expensive here!

 

[gpovanman]

Ok, so I live in Spain, and there are a good number of these vehicles still on the road. But there are a far greater number of modern "Chav mobiles". I have 3 cars at the moment. I have the 4, a Land Rover 101 and a 1990 Golf. The Golf runs like a pig cos it has an electronic twin choke carb that is couple up to a `primitive ECU. The damn thing is always giving me hassle, and god knows how much more hassle a more modern car will give in the years to come, due to the fact that they are far more reliant on Electrickery than older cars. As for image, I couldnt give a monkey's. My Dad had a Reliant Robin, which although it is a very acquired taste, like the Renault, it fitted its own bill very well. One thing that you have to bear in mind with more modern cars is that due to the amount of electrickery that there is on board, and therefore inbuilt obsolecense, is that these cars have a maximum viable life of about 12 yrs. So bearing in mind that recycled steel cannot be used in many of the load bearing areas, you have to displace a tribe of indians to dig an iron ore mine every 12 yrs. On top of this, this means that the investment that you have made is written off after every 12 or so yrs. On top of this, you have the fuel consumption. Whilst it is clear that the exhaust gases that arwe emitted from modern cars are much cleaner than they are from older cars, the modern motorist thrashes his car, which burns more fuel, and all the electrickery that makes the car run cleaner saps the power of the engine, making it consume more. And when either the Land Rover or the Renault break down, they can be fioxed cheaply and with a minimum of fuss, not needing a mass of diagnostic equipment to sort engine problems, or complete drivetrain removal to change the clutch. You can take the rip all you want out of older cars, but I couldnt care less, I am a richer man for it. Literally.

 

[Luigi Berlusconi]

Girl-puller I hear...

Excellent


my new one:

 

[ian Stanbury]

Mr Berlusconi

Mr Berlusconi, welcome to our club and we are sorry to hear that you have finally had to give up running Italy and have taken up 'girl pulling' with the best vehicle available - well done!!

Here is someone else at it!!