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Uh oh.. starter failure!

tasheido

Enthusiast
Messages
18
Hello all

My R4's starter refused to work sometimes when i turned the key. It used to happen like 1 in 100 starts but recently it became worse. I used to increase the probability of a successful start by putting in the reverse gear and rocking the car a bit. My theory was that maibe the starter head was somehow stuck and moving the
flywheel it would free it. It sound's stupid but it used to work!.. anyway Frederick the frog showed me that dirt in the solenoid contacts is a common problem. I first checked if i had current being sent to the solenoid when i turned the key, and i have. It drains about 10A so i guess that there is current in the solenoid.A friend of mine told me that if the solenoid was working properly i should hear a click when i turned the key, i don't hear any clicks. The bad thing is that the starter is located in a very tight spot and i have no idea how to remove-it. My car is a R4 GTL left hand drive. i think the starter is only being held by two bolts against the clutch case. i have the steering wheel shaft in the way, the clutch cable tensioner and the oil tubes for the brakes. I also don't have the repair manual Haynes or the french RTA , and i don't want to mess it up so. can any of you guys help me on how to remove the starter ?
 
On a RHD R4 you have to take the exhaust manifold off. This also means that you'll have to undo the two nuts on the clutch cable and hang the cable out of the way. It may be easier to remove the carb to gain access to the manifold nuts. The two inner manifold bolts are the 'torx' type so you'll need the proper tool for this.

Once the manifold is off, you will need to remove a top bracket on the engine mounting. Then just remove the wires from the starter and the three retaining bolts and it will come out easily.

I've never done a LHD starter so, as you say, you may need to remove the steering coupling etc. I would have a go at removing the manifold first and to see if there is enough room to wiggle the starter out.

Not an easy job, so do fit a good quality recon or new starter so you don't have to do it again in 6 months time.

Steve
 
I've never needed to take the exhaust manifold off to change the starter, although it is tight with the manifold in place. I tend to remove the clutch cable and the engine mounting reinforcing bracket, and use a short ring spanner with the edge ground down to get at the lower starter nut. My last starter change took 45 minutes (in the rain), but I'm getting good at them now. I can inagine the brakes and steering would be in the way on a left hand drive car.

Your starter seems to be doing the same as my one did, but it might make sense to spend money on a new one to be certain rather than risk just cleaning the solenoid.

:clementi:
 
Malcolm, you must have as many arms as an octopus to get one out without removing the manifold. :D

With my method at least you get to replace the manifold gasket at the same time!

Lets call it preventative maintenance, shall we? :wink:

Steve
 
Steve Hennessey said:
Malcolm, you must have as many arms as an octopus to get one out without removing the manifold. :D

I cheat - I send the Frog in to do the dirty work.
icon-starter.jpg
 
Hi All, I have taken the starter out without removing the manifold, by removing the clutch mounting bracket and engine mount stabiliser bar.
I do admit though it was not easy,
 
Might as well give it a go...

well.. the starter's condition has become considerably worse in the past few weeks. I am now parking downhill all the time and getting more and more tired of pushing the car, so why not give it a try.I'll try to do it without removing the manifolds. Yesterday i went to check the price of a new starter 100 and something € (around £68 ) ouch!. Note to self: Find a cheaper one.Lets see if i can be as good as the frog.

thanks for your help!
 
Bah.. going to get a frog...

Well.. i had a go at removing the starter today, with no luck :(.The starter is loose (was held by two bolts only third hole had no bolt), unfastened the steering shaft and put it to the side. Unfastened the bolt that connects the engine mount stabilizer to the engine mount and was hoping that the clutch cable top support would come loose, and it didn't. I have no idea what kind of bolt/nut is holding that stabilizer to the block, i can't see it as it's under the exhaust manifold. Then i ran out of light. I guess i'll have to release the clutch cable completely before i can remove the whole stuff from the way. Besides this releasing the starter wasn't that hard. Oh well under the car i go to release the clutch cable... Bah!
 
Looks like a 13mm nut holding the bracket to the block. I've attached a photo of an engine in the corner of the garage.

I tend to undo the clutch cable from the lever on the block before taking the bracket off. It's easy to do if you use a crowbar to pull the lever upwards a little. I think there is a second nut holding the clutch stabiliser bracket to the engine mount - it goes from front to rear.

Once you've pulled the bracket off you'll need to move the starter towards the rear of the car, twist a bit, angle it upwards and outwards, and it'll come out of the hole with so much clearance that you'll be wondering why it was being so troublesome before. It's a bit like one of those Chinese puzzles.

clutch-bracket_212.jpg
 
Last edited:
Victory!!!

Finally!! i managed to remove the starter!... i doesn't come out with that much clearance, remember i have the brake tubes and the steering wheel shaft in the way. I have a long way to go to get the job done in 45 minutes in the rain but.. i'm getting there. Now comes problem 2 getting it back together again, but i don't want to worry about that now. Monday i'm going to look for a replacement, i have to check the prices on the rebuilt starters first. This one is a FEMSA "Made in Portugal" i was expecting Ducellier, Paris Rhone or something like that i guess this starter was put in later.

Thanks for the help
 
Fixed!!

Just to let you guys know that the starter problem is fixed now. I haven't been able to post because of internet problems( my ISP sucks). The solenoid winding was bad, probably shorted out. I didn't buy a new starter since mine looked pretty good. Changed the brushes cleaned the contacts lubed the bushings and changed the solenoid for a new one. And..... Now the starter turns like a steam engine! It even makes a nice wizz like a turbine or something. really cool.

Now another problem came up. It has to do with the warning lights, but i'll place it under another thread.

Thanks for all the help on the starter!
 
Good to hear your car is up and running again. I was also amazed at the speed and sound of my starter after fiddling with it. It's a real feel good sound.

Your problem with warning lights sounds interesting. Last time I had problems with warning lights it was the oil pressure wire that had shorted against the exhaust manifold. I turned back from a wedding thinking there was a big problem. Ended up missing the wedding, but made it to the reception which was good fun.

:clementi:
 
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