1967 R4 that Wont turn over!

[BULLITT]

Can anyone offer some advise?
I have a 1967 R4 which I have left stood in my garage for about 18 months. When I last used her she was running, but a bit lumpy.
I decided last weekend to change the plugs and pionts and charge the battery.
Sure enough one of the plugs was particularly ugly with the gap barely visible due to a build up of crystal like debris. I thought this could indicate the cause of the poor running before wshe was garaged.
The battery is worse for wear and wont fully charge so I need to replace but I thought 'perhaps it will have enough umph to turn the engine allowing me to set the points', but alas no. But here's my real worry!!! I cant even get the engine to turn over by bump starting or even the crank handle??? Granted I have not gone for the full 100 m dash and let the clutch out, just a gentle back a fourth in my gargage but it doesnt seam to want to budge???
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Steve Hennessey]

Was the car stored with sufficient anti-freeze? If not then some damage could have occured. Also try to free the engine off with the plugs out and try bumping it in top gear.

 

[BULLITT]

Thanks for that.
I have taken the plugs out and even squirted a little engine oil into each cyclinder.
The coolant cetainly has antifreeze in it and hopefully to the correct strength. It looks a healthy colour of blue at any rate.
Do you think if I try to bump start with any anger I am at risk doing any damage?

 

[alewis]

Just a few of thoughts.

Leave the plugs out when trying to turn it over.

How is the coolant level did it drop at all or is it still quite high ?

Whats the oil like - is there any white horribleness under the filler cap ?

 

[billythefish]

I remember a few years ago my old man squirted a half a can of wd40 down each plug hole and left it for a week, he then removed the fan belt and alternator belt,after which he did manage to turn the engine and free it with a bump start, might work.

 

[BULLITT]

OK thanks all. I'm going over to the car tonight hopefully. I'll check the coolant level and oil condition. I'll also try the old WD40 in the cylinders for good measure and report back.
Thanks for all you advise.
I notice I have 2 seperate belts, one for the fan and one for the dynamo, is it ok to remove both whilst trying to bump the engine free?

 

[Steve Hennessey]

No need to remove the belts. Another thing you could try is to jack the car up one side, remove the wheel, replace the nuts, put the car into top gear, free the handbrake and use a long lever between the wheel studs to turn the drive shaft and see if you can free the engine that way. Don't use excessive force but don't be too gentle either. If the engine won't budge then it sounds as if the rings have rusted in the bores.

 

[mike4gtl]

If you have crystals on your plugs it means your cylinders have had damp in. Usually this means the head gasket which would point towards your rough running problems previous. I would put a decent bar on the ring gear and try to bar it over, this usually works unless its siezed solid. (you may need to remove the starter)

 

[utilitare-extrordinaire]

Were it me, I would definately remove the cylinder head before proceeding further, unless you have access to an endoscope to inspect through the plughole.

It sounds very much like the head gasket has blown, and a quantity of water has been standing in the affected cylinder, which will have caused corrosion. If this is the case forcing the engine with a lever on the ring gear will almost certainly break piston rings and/or score the bore. I would pull the head and inspect, and if there is evidence of standing water dry completely and fill the pot with diesel overnight, after which with careful use of emery paper all may be well.

I'd personally be inclined to drop the sump and pull that piston to inspect/clean/replace the rings too, but I know removing the sump is a faff...

Good luck.

 

[mike4gtl]

you cant drop the sump on an 845cc when its in the car, the bulkhead is in the way to get at the rear bolts

 

[reggie]

I have removed a sump on a 850 before, and dont remember it being difficult ?. quarter drive ratchet set, remove cross member, It was a 1977,

 

[BULLITT]

Hi all, and thanks for the advise.

Not got so far yet but what i've done is:

- Removed the plugs (One looked messy, crystal like deposits, could this be caused by petrol if I flooded that cyclinder when trying to start previously? It did sound like it was firing on 3 and would not tick over last time I tried).

- Sprayed plenty of WD-40 into each cyclinder

- Checked the coolant level which is full and good condition

- Checked the oil which is upto max on the dip stick and looks clean

- Checked under the oil filler cap and all looks good no meesy residue at all.

I think I have access to an endoscope from work (engineeering not medical, don't panic about misuse of NHS equipment). I'll try that next before I try to free the engine.

Thanks again

 

[utilitare-extrordinaire]

Hope that you do manage to borrow the endoscope (and I am glad that you don't work in healthcare ;-) )

Before you use it, I would recommend sucking out as much as the liquid in the offending cylinder first (a syringe with tube attached would be ideal) so as to ensure that you can actually see the area you hope to inspect.

Crystals typically are an indicator of where antifreeze has been, so I to suspect coolant has been leaking into this cylinder, potentially from a failed head gasket.

Good luck,
Jonathan.

 

[renoir cigar]

Don't want to ruin your day but it sounds exactly like corrosion in rings, soak in diesel for ages and rock it back and forth in 2nd now and then, might do the trick, I gave up this process after about 4 months! New pistons as third was well and trully shagged. Also the inside of the pistons had corroded so had to chuck them, the good thing is you then get to see the real state of the engine, parts are pretty cheap etc.
Good luck,
Steven
An old bloke here suggested pouring milk into cylinders as a trick but diesel gets the thumbs up