Camber

[BVDP]

I have bought a R4 TL 1986. No rust, just had to put in a new steering colum after an attempt to steel the car for a joyride. After that I found out that the camber of my left front wheel was not good. It is -0.45° and should be positive. Anyone an idea what can be wrong and more important, how it can be fixed. The camber is the only thing that must be fixed before I can drive with my R4.

mvg Bart

 

[malcolm]

How close is the toe-out to the correct figure? If that is wrong the camber could be affected. Also if there are any worn ball joints in the suspension that could alter the camber.

 

[BVDP]

I do not know what toe-out is but the check out stated that only the camber was wrong. All the other measurements where within tolerance. I gonna check all the balljoints and hope that something is wrong.

mvg Bart

 

[angel]

Is the ride height correct? When the R4 suspension is compressed, the camber gets negative (as it should), if the front end has sagged, the camber angle will be incorrect.
Malcolm, the toe (in or out) has nothing to do with the camber angle on the R4 suspension.

 

[malcolm]

Malcolm, the toe (in or out) has nothing to do with the camber angle on the R4 suspension.

Sure it does if you roll the car forward with bad tracking. Wheels will tend to push in or out at the bottom. Though you say R4 suspension - I only noticed the effect with Triumph Spitfire rear suspension which isn't all that well located. You could get 5 degrees of negative camber with a little toe out on the rear wheels with those things.

Renault 4 front suspension would probably do the same thing to a much lesser extent, especially if joints were worn. Like the rubber tie rod joint maybe.

 

[BVDP]

I have changed the upper suspention arm, all the balljoints and the piece that is fixed on all the balljoints and the wheekdisk. No effect however. The measurement is still negative. So, this is becoming a very BIG problem.
Has anyone an idea what the Renault specifications on this item where in 1986, the year my R4 was build?

 

[angel]

I'm still wondering how incorrect toe will affect camber...The wheels will tend to push out but will not be able to do so since the wishbones hold them...
The Spitfire (up to Mk3) has such an ill-engineered rear suspension, that it is not a good example! (coincidentally increasing the toe-in on this would limit the suspension articulation, thus make it sit higher, thus making the camber more positive). We are talking about real cars here, not wheelbarrows :-) :-)

 

[Le Champ]

Mr Haynes states that there are two types of upper wishbones: one gives a 7 degree castor angle (Pre 1969 models) to the front roadwheel and the other gives a 13 degree castor angle fitted on models after 1969.
Tie rods should measure 24 degrees on models after 1969 and 31 degrees before 1969.
Camber angle is given as 0-1 degree on models after 1969.
Toe-out measurement is 1-5 mm on models after 1969.

Is it possible that someone in the past has replaced the later Gtl upper wishbone with a part from a pre 69 model and affected the geometry without realising the difference? Sorry for butting in Malcolm and Angel my knowledge is zero compared to you both - Mr Haynes was my bed-time reading for a while.

 

[angel]

There are other parts affecting castor angle (mainly the stub axle carriers) other than the upper wishbones. However mixing these two types is not good, I don't know if they had different lengths, can someone shed some light here?

BVDP, have you measured underbody height?

 

[Le Champ]

The Haynes manual diagram shows both sets side by side with a few dimensions. The parts are very similar looking but with subtle differences, the dual layout of the diagram infers they are not identical. I wish I could upload the drawing, it's on P189.

 

[Le Champ]

The stub axle carriers are different, the upper b/joint mounting hole is offset to the vertical axis on the later and directly in line with the same axis on the earlier type

 

[BVDP]

I have solved the problem today and put some material between the suspension and the chassis. The camber is now 1° and by adjusting the toeout, the camber changed. I hope it is correct now.

mvg Bart