- Thread starter Sprackers
- Start date
Sprackers
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 353
- Location
- Tunbridge Wells England
I have in my hand a coil that says 12V on it and came out of a Escort RS232 turbo. All Fords after 1970 I read have Ballasted systems in them. So this is a Ballasted coil that has 12V written on it.
I decided to check out finally and the only way as to the power of my orange coil Ducellier.
I went onto 4 garages (here in France) and they have never heard of Ballasted!!!! and they didnt have an Ohm reader either!
I finally found an electrical shop and reluctantly the owner allowed me to test my coil on his resistance reader which was on the counter.
I tested the resisitance between the + and - terminal.
It read 1.8 Ohms
I read everywhere that a non-Ballasted coil should read 3 Ohms and Ballasted coil should read 1.5 Ohms.
I had to laugh to myself........i'm going Ballasted mad:eek:
I have fitted the Orange coil into the car anyway and tried to start her up.
No joy.
The fuel pump IS working fine.
As I turned the car over I saw fuel pumping into the filter and filling it up.
So its not the pump.
I will find someone to help with the next step.
I will check the spark at the spark plug end.
I will check the spark form the coil to the distributor the HT lead.
Then work my way back.
Unfortunatly i dont have a multiumeter so I cant check the current at source which I know would be the best way.
But I read somewhere that you can tell by the colour of the spark when testing.
Blue is good . Orange is not good.
After reading about Ballasted and non-Ballasted coils for the past two weeks I would like to pass to all, that for me, was one of the better articles explaining about Ballasted coils. And it has a nice (simple)diagram.
http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgcc/midgetreg/Ballastedcoil.shtml
I decided to check out finally and the only way as to the power of my orange coil Ducellier.
I went onto 4 garages (here in France) and they have never heard of Ballasted!!!! and they didnt have an Ohm reader either!
I finally found an electrical shop and reluctantly the owner allowed me to test my coil on his resistance reader which was on the counter.
I tested the resisitance between the + and - terminal.
It read 1.8 Ohms
I read everywhere that a non-Ballasted coil should read 3 Ohms and Ballasted coil should read 1.5 Ohms.
I had to laugh to myself........i'm going Ballasted mad:eek:
I have fitted the Orange coil into the car anyway and tried to start her up.
No joy.
The fuel pump IS working fine.
As I turned the car over I saw fuel pumping into the filter and filling it up.
So its not the pump.
I will find someone to help with the next step.
I will check the spark at the spark plug end.
I will check the spark form the coil to the distributor the HT lead.
Then work my way back.
Unfortunatly i dont have a multiumeter so I cant check the current at source which I know would be the best way.
But I read somewhere that you can tell by the colour of the spark when testing.
Blue is good . Orange is not good.
After reading about Ballasted and non-Ballasted coils for the past two weeks I would like to pass to all, that for me, was one of the better articles explaining about Ballasted coils. And it has a nice (simple)diagram.
http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgcc/midgetreg/Ballastedcoil.shtml
iMacThere4iAm
Tom Long
- Messages
- 750
- Location
- Morecambe
If you don't have a multimeter then that might explain why you're having such trouble diagnosing electrical issues! Save yourself a headache and get one; you should be able to find a perfectly serviceable model in any tool shop for around 20€, or much cheaper online.
Does the engine not fire up at all now?
I can recommend following the Haynes manual's troubleshooting page systematically - do the checks in the right order and don't skip any steps and it should lead you to the problem.
Does the engine not fire up at all now?
I can recommend following the Haynes manual's troubleshooting page systematically - do the checks in the right order and don't skip any steps and it should lead you to the problem.
Sprackers
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 353
- Location
- Tunbridge Wells England
I took my old coil and the 2 others I had bought to Norauto.
He knew all about ballasted coils and mesured my old coil's resistance between + and -
It read 1.2 Ohms
I checked coil Nº2 (12v)I bought (2nd hand) which was off an Escort Rs232 Turbo
It read 1.4 Ohms
I checked the Ducllier Eleectronic coil 12v
It read 1.8 Ohms
I assume that more Ohms the better, but anyway I have fitted the Ducellier.
Starting issues:
I sorted out the starting problem.
Battery. As simple as that. Doh!
In my defence, The lights were bright and it was turning over with a reasonable amount of power everytime I turned the ignition key....obviously wasnt enough.
Hooked it up to a mates battery and started first time!!
Bought a new battery.
When I took off the old battery there was so much gunk around the terminals too. Which you could not see unless you removed the terminal connectors.
So one problem out of the way.
I will be taking her out for a drive on May 15th. Away for two weeks.
I have replaced the coil and replaced the battery.
I have cleaned all the plugs.
I have also cleaned inside the distributor cap especially the rotor arm connector.
I have put a magnet on the petrol tank to draw any filings that might be in there away from the outlet pipe that might have been causing a blockage.
Although the Pump seems fine.
I have checked the air filter (Clean)
I have also checked the grounding cable from the engine to the chasis. (I read in Haynes that this may cause sudden cut outs).
I will also switch the air intake around to winter mode
Watch this space for the result of the first test run and thanks for all the help and advice.
He knew all about ballasted coils and mesured my old coil's resistance between + and -
It read 1.2 Ohms
I checked coil Nº2 (12v)I bought (2nd hand) which was off an Escort Rs232 Turbo
It read 1.4 Ohms
I checked the Ducllier Eleectronic coil 12v
It read 1.8 Ohms
I assume that more Ohms the better, but anyway I have fitted the Ducellier.
Starting issues:
I sorted out the starting problem.
Battery. As simple as that. Doh!
In my defence, The lights were bright and it was turning over with a reasonable amount of power everytime I turned the ignition key....obviously wasnt enough.
Hooked it up to a mates battery and started first time!!
Bought a new battery.
When I took off the old battery there was so much gunk around the terminals too. Which you could not see unless you removed the terminal connectors.
So one problem out of the way.
I will be taking her out for a drive on May 15th. Away for two weeks.
I have replaced the coil and replaced the battery.
I have cleaned all the plugs.
I have also cleaned inside the distributor cap especially the rotor arm connector.
I have put a magnet on the petrol tank to draw any filings that might be in there away from the outlet pipe that might have been causing a blockage.
Although the Pump seems fine.
I have checked the air filter (Clean)
I have also checked the grounding cable from the engine to the chasis. (I read in Haynes that this may cause sudden cut outs).
I will also switch the air intake around to winter mode
Watch this space for the result of the first test run and thanks for all the help and advice.
Sprackers
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 353
- Location
- Tunbridge Wells England
I hope so too.
I bought a second hand Coil and replaced the old one and tis the same.
After 10 mins of driving the engine cuts out.
I tested the HT lead and sure enough there is no spark on the end.
I have ordered a brand new coil adn hopefully will be here tomorrow for another test.
Fingers crossed.
I bought a second hand Coil and replaced the old one and tis the same.
After 10 mins of driving the engine cuts out.
I tested the HT lead and sure enough there is no spark on the end.
I have ordered a brand new coil adn hopefully will be here tomorrow for another test.
Fingers crossed.
Sprackers
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 353
- Location
- Tunbridge Wells England
ITS NOT THE COIL??
What has happened:
Installed 'new' coil.
Worked fine for 10 minutes of drivng then cut out.
Wouldnt start at all:
Tested the Ht cable by removing the end from the dizzy and placing it close to the head. No spark:
Replaced the new coil with old coil.
Wouldnt start at all:
OK I know what you are thinking: OLD coil knackered, New coil also gone.
Replaced the new coil again and waited 3 hours.
Started first time.
So to test:
I replaced the new coil again with the old coil (this is to test the old coil)
Started first time.
So therefore we can acertain its NOT the coil, other wise it would have started when I replaced the old with the new the first time.
Could it be the electronic gizmo?
What has happened:
Installed 'new' coil.
Worked fine for 10 minutes of drivng then cut out.
Wouldnt start at all:
Tested the Ht cable by removing the end from the dizzy and placing it close to the head. No spark:
Replaced the new coil with old coil.
Wouldnt start at all:
OK I know what you are thinking: OLD coil knackered, New coil also gone.
Replaced the new coil again and waited 3 hours.
Started first time.
So to test:
I replaced the new coil again with the old coil (this is to test the old coil)
Started first time.
So therefore we can acertain its NOT the coil, other wise it would have started when I replaced the old with the new the first time.
Could it be the electronic gizmo?
iMacThere4iAm
Tom Long
- Messages
- 750
- Location
- Morecambe
It could indeed be that. I'm afraid I don't really know how to test it though; perhaps you would be better off looking for an ordinary Ducellier points-based distributor, or if you can afford it a 1-2-3 electronic distributor.
mojobaby
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 1,288
Is there any way you can remove your distributor cap and take a close up photo of the inside of your distributor, just to verify if you still have points?
By not having a spark at the end of the HT cable that goes into the cap from the coil, it all points to a coil related problem. So maybe it is indeed the electronic timing thing.
By the way have you ever replaced that HT cable?
I'm a bit confused actually. Electronic ignitions are supposed to boost the spark from a ballasted coil which is 6-9 Volt. Why do you have to boost a 12Volt coil. What does it boost it to?
By not having a spark at the end of the HT cable that goes into the cap from the coil, it all points to a coil related problem. So maybe it is indeed the electronic timing thing.
By the way have you ever replaced that HT cable?
I'm a bit confused actually. Electronic ignitions are supposed to boost the spark from a ballasted coil which is 6-9 Volt. Why do you have to boost a 12Volt coil. What does it boost it to?
Sprackers
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 353
- Location
- Tunbridge Wells England
Hi,
No Points its electronic.
I havent changed the HT lead.
Could an HT lead overheat in 10 mintes and then not work? I find that almost impossble to believe.
I ma going to try to test the electronic ignition thing this moring by seeing if there is a current going through it when the engine is ticking over.
Then drive it round the carpark until it stops and again testing it.
As regards the coil, I dont have a ballasted system therfore a 12V coil is ok....I was told.
The original coil has 12V on the side
No Points its electronic.
I havent changed the HT lead.
Could an HT lead overheat in 10 mintes and then not work? I find that almost impossble to believe.
I ma going to try to test the electronic ignition thing this moring by seeing if there is a current going through it when the engine is ticking over.
Then drive it round the carpark until it stops and again testing it.
As regards the coil, I dont have a ballasted system therfore a 12V coil is ok....I was told.
The original coil has 12V on the side
angel
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 2,444
- Location
- Athens, Greece
It has to be the electronic ignition, this type of almost random failure (working, then after 10 mins off) is typical to electronic components.
Testing the module is not practical, requiring an oscilloscope. Either find another module, or throw in a points distributor with the same coil and see what happens.
Testing the module is not practical, requiring an oscilloscope. Either find another module, or throw in a points distributor with the same coil and see what happens.
montenegro
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 192
I just don t see the point of most of the electronic systems ! the joy of owning a 4 is it's simplicity and the ability to repair it on the roadside, an electronic system would perhaps be preferable on something that went faster than 100 kph, but if it go's wrong, you're stuck ? I agree with angel, put the system back to original and see if that cures the problem...
billythefish
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 350
sounds like dirt in the carb or petrol pump diaphram
Sprackers
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 353
- Location
- Tunbridge Wells England
I am reluctant to start fiddling with the carb as iit says in Haynes manual. The last resort as its all very technical inside the carb.
What about the dizzy? is it a case of slotting the new one in? Or do I need stobeascopes and all sorts of technical stuff?
Or is it somethng that a trained mechanic is the only one that can do it?
What about the dizzy? is it a case of slotting the new one in? Or do I need stobeascopes and all sorts of technical stuff?
Or is it somethng that a trained mechanic is the only one that can do it?
billythefish
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 350
First establish if it's a fuel shortage or the spark to the plugs, it should be simply enough to do, put a cheap clear filter between the pump and the carb and see if there is dirt coming through, if not then check the plugs for a spark, it should be easy enough to eliminate one or the other.
Cornish4
Le Dazzleur
- Messages
- 1,812
- Location
- Falmouth
Hi there, I'm not so sure it's the carb or the pump Billy, that doesn't really explain why it cuts out when hot. If its not the coil, and I think you've prooved that Phil, then it must be the electronic module. that seems the most likely. So it's back to basics with the Ducellier dizzy you have. You can change the dizzy and set the timing without a strobe light initially.