Indicator issue

[Nao]

Hello everyone!

My name is Nao from Austin, Texas, USA. I have a 1988 Renault 4 with indicator issue.

Indicator works when headlights are off. Also works with marker lights on.
But not working when headlights are on.. (Hazard lights also not working when headlights are on).

I replaced indicator relay (4 pins) and it worked short amount of time. but stopped working again..
**My guess is bad indicator unit.

Car starts good and runs good.


I also noticed some smell (Smells like plastic or wire melting) from under the steering wheel (Or behind the fuses) other day.
I took the cover off and investigating all the wires and connections, but all look fine.
Not sure this is related with the indicator issue or not. The car still runs good.

Please let me know if you guys have some information or tips.
Thank you so much!
-Nao
p.s. sorry for the bad English.. I am originally from Japan and still leaning


My wife and a little chihuahua

 

[André4Renaults]

Hi Nao!
Is might be a faulty earth, insufficient voltage or defective wiring. Or it could be something else....
To deal with these possibilities in order:
1/ A faulty earth: If the indicators work normally when the headlights are off, but NOT when they're on, it could be because the indicator earths are not connected properly, so when the headlights are off the indicators earth out through the headlights, but once the headlights are ON, the indicators can't earth though the headlights, so they don't work. Try cleaning up all the connections to and FROM the indicators and any earth straps connecting the bonnet to the car body.
2/ Insufficient voltage: Was the engine running when you tested the indicators? If the car's battery is a little tired it might not have power to light the headlights AND work the indicators, particularly if the engine is not running at the time. Check the battery's in good health first and measure the cottage across its terminals. This should be 12 volts with the engine off and 14.4 volts with the engine running. If it's not, investigate the alternator & refurbish if necessary.
3/ The smell from the wiring suggests there might be a serious problem, so be careful! It's difficult to say without seeing the car (and north London to Texas is a long way to see a car!) but I would have this looked at by a qualified auto-electrician as a matter of urgency!

 

[malcolm]

The front indicator electrics are horrid on the GTLs. At the back of the indicator in the bonnet the electrical connections are riveted on. The connectors can get dirty and the only good solution is to buy new indicator units.

The earth connection to the right side inner wing is very exposed and can corrode. It is held by a bolt which will probably snap when you undo it so it might need drilling out.

Removing the wiring connectors from the indicators and the earth, then lightly cleaning any corrosion with scotchbrite or a scouring pad would be the first thing to try.

Cool to see a R4 in Texas!

 

[edwin]

Could the smell be related to fuses? Is there a wrong sized fuse being used somewhere?

 

[Nao]

Hi Nao!
Is might be a faulty earth, insufficient voltage or defective wiring. Or it could be something else....
To deal with these possibilities in order:
1/ A faulty earth: If the indicators work normally when the headlights are off, but NOT when they're on, it could be because the indicator earths are not connected properly, so when the headlights are off the indicators earth out through the headlights, but once the headlights are ON, the indicators can't earth though the headlights, so they don't work. Try cleaning up all the connections to and FROM the indicators and any earth straps connecting the bonnet to the car body.
2/ Insufficient voltage: Was the engine running when you tested the indicators? If the car's battery is a little tired it might not have power to light the headlights AND work the indicators, particularly if the engine is not running at the time. Check the battery's in good health first and measure the cottage across its terminals. This should be 12 volts with the engine off and 14.4 volts with the engine running. If it's not, investigate the alternator & refurbish if necessary.
3/ The smell from the wiring suggests there might be a serious problem, so be careful! It's difficult to say without seeing the car (and north London to Texas is a long way to see a car!) but I would have this looked at by a qualified auto-electrician as a matter of urgency!

Hi Andrew!
Thank you for all the information!
I checked (Well, probably not everything...) connections, but still the same..

Voltage was checked by my friend few months ago, but I will check again soon.

Went to short ride today but I don't smell anything. Hopefully nothing serious.. haha..

One another issue is no one want to fix this car here is US..

 

[Nao]

The front indicator electrics are horrid on the GTLs. At the back of the indicator in the bonnet the electrical connections are riveted on. The connectors can get dirty and the only good solution is to buy new indicator units.

The earth connection to the right side inner wing is very exposed and can corrode. It is held by a bolt which will probably snap when you undo it so it might need drilling out.

Removing the wiring connectors from the indicators and the earth, then lightly cleaning any corrosion with scotchbrite or a scouring pad would be the first thing to try.

Cool to see a R4 in Texas!

Hi Malcolm,
Thank you for the information!

Is this the parts you're talking about? (Sorry, I only know a little things..)


Most of the people don't even know Renault. People always asking me "What kind of car??" haha...

 

[Nao]

Could the smell be related to fuses? Is there a wrong sized fuse being used somewhere?

Hi Edwin!
Thank you for your help!
I don't even know all the fuses are correct size.. I took a photo and checked numbers.
Do you see any wrong size fuses?

 

[Nao]

This is the flasher relay I got from eBay. Maybe wrong relay??

New Flasher Relay for Fiat Uno Renault Lancia 12v 4 Pin - IM11437 | eBay

54201045 54201136.

www.ebay.com

Thank you so much for your help guys!

 

[malcolm]

The relays you have are not standard for the R4. Someone has messed around. I guess order replacements from the part numbers on them, but it'll probably be an earthing problem as mentioned above.

 

[edwin]

By the way, a great looking car, and great to see someone driving an R4 in America. Where did you get it? More photos please!

 

[edwin]

Going back to the fuses, I can't find a picture of the fuse board in haynes, but I have one in my Renault handbook for Ronnie, which is an '85 845cc car. It has the same 10 fuse slots, so may be the same. One of you will know and correct me.
If there is an electrical burning smell, and then something does not work, the fuse board appears to me to be a first port of call. Easy, and cheap. Go to the expensive or difficult after you have checked this. There is a diagram of the fuse board for my 1985 845cc car below in the attachment, showing the fuses, and their circuits. Your car is an 1100 cc, with probably more electrical kit, so the fuse board may be different. But is appears that because bits for R4's are difficult to obtain in the US , improvisation has taken place. Someone here on the forum with more experience than me will know the correct details of what you need to have. And I would get a full set of fuses.

 

[Nao]

The relays you have are not standard for the R4. Someone has messed around. I guess order replacements from the part numbers on them, but it'll probably be an earthing problem as mentioned above.

Ok, I will order the correct one soon!
I am also guessing the wiring is wrong too. This car was restored (Cheap low quality restoration.. ) long time ago..

 

[Nao]

Going back to the fuses, I can't find a picture of the fuse board in haynes, but I have one in my Renault handbook for Ronnie, which is an '85 845cc car. It has the same 10 fuse slots, so may be the same. One of you will know and correct me.
If there is an electrical burning smell, and then something does not work, the fuse board appears to me to be a first port of call. Easy, and cheap. Go to the expensive or difficult after you have checked this. There is a diagram of the fuse board for my 1985 845cc car below in the attachment, showing the fuses, and their circuits. Your car is an 1100 cc, with probably more electrical kit, so the fuse board may be different. But is appears that because bits for R4's are difficult to obtain in the US , improvisation has taken place. Someone here on the forum with more experience than me will know the correct details of what you need to have. And I would get a full set of fuses.

Thank you for the diagram! This helps me a lot! I checked all the fuses today and numbers are good, but probably wiring behind the fuse board is wrong....

I found this car in Dallas, Texas. The last owner imported from Portugal.
Looks pretty good from 10m away... haha... It's pretty rusty and crusty, but I love this car. Super fun to drive!
People likes big cars and trucks here, but I love small cars.

 

[Leonardo.IT]

That's quite a unique combination, a French car built in Spain (if I'm correct, looks like a fasa) imported in the USA and driven by a Japanese!
As for your issue I'd follow what has been already written

 

[edwin]

The great thing you now have in your favour is this forum. Everyone on it is so helpful and many are very knowledgeable and R4 experienced, and who also know where to get things.

 

[Nao]

That's quite a unique combination, a French car built in Spain (if I'm correct, looks like a fasa) imported in the USA and driven by a Japanese!
As for your issue I'd follow what has been already written

Renault is pretty popular in Japan and saw many R4's when I grew up, but I never liked it.
My taste has changed after living in US for 20years. I fell in love when I found this car.

 

[Nao]

The great thing you now have in your favour is this forum. Everyone on it is so helpful and many are very knowledgeable and R4 experienced, and who also know where to get things.

I can't get any (Maybe a little) info and parts here is US. I am so glad to found this forum.
R4 is pretty popular is Japan, but somehow people don't want to share the knowledge (I am probably wrong, but I can't find any site like this in Japanese...)

Thank you so much for the big help guys!

 

[Nao]

ALL WORKING NOW!!
I took a good look of the engine room today and I found out the cable from negative side of the battery is only connected to the engine block.
I made a short wire to connect the negative wire to the body and it's all working now!

Please let me know if this is not good way / not safe, Or If you know better way to wiring.

I went to quick test ride with lights-on and seems like all working.
Still not sure the melting smell, but I don't smell that now.

After I checked many other things (Wires, Bulbs, Fuses, New relay, I also took a part of the indicator unit and it was pretty difficult to put togerther... hahaha...).
But I learned many things form you guys.
Thank you so much!!

 

[André4Renaults]

I'm glad you have sorted it out. It might be even better if you connect the lead from the negative side of the battery directly to the engine block, then run a wire from there to the car body. The reason fore this is that the thicker lead need to be bolted to the engine block, to give a good earth the starter motor. The thinner wire could be attached to the same bolt at one end, the other end being bolted onto the car's frame (or body) The burning smell you noticed was the car's electrical system earthing out through other wires, as the body wasn't earthed until you fitted the lead!

Good luck.....

 

[Nao]

I'm glad you have sorted it out. It might be even better if you connect the lead from the negative side of the battery directly to the engine block, then run a wire from there to the car body. The reason fore this is that the thicker lead need to be bolted to the engine block, to give a good earth the starter motor. The thinner wire could be attached to the same bolt at one end, the other end being bolted onto the car's frame (or body) The burning smell you noticed was the car's electrical system earthing out through other wires, as the body wasn't earthed until you fitted the lead!

Good luck.....

Thank you for the tech! I will definitely change the wiring!
Super happy about this fix before get any serious issue (Melting or burning...)

Thank you again!