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R4 - shudders/jumps and now won't start

J

Jacqueline

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France
Hello - can anyone help please? I have a Renault 4 1991 model and we are having problems. The car ran well for about 400km after we bought it but then started to 'jump' -most noticeably when we slowed down. At times the juddering was quite violent and it was a worry to be on the road knowing that we couldn't bank on maintaining any particular speed. We've had the spark plugs changed, the distributor changed, the coil checked, replaced a couple of tubes - one had a hole (!) and each time it runs well for about 400km then the same problems start. Unfortunately we've now hit another problem in that the car won't start at all. I've read a few posts with similar problems but not exactly the same and could really do with some help. One of the reasons we bought this is that they are known for being easy to repair ...
 
You mention changing the distributor; did you also change the condenser (sometimes called the capacitor)? The symptoms you describe are typical of a condenser failing as it warms up. As well as changing the distributor, were the points checked for condition and gap setting? The gap setting is critical, as is the timing, which is affected by the gap setting. Remember-only alter adjust or change ONE thing at a time, or you'll become confused! Happy to help more if needed!
 
Jacqueline said:
Hello - can anyone help please? I have a Renault 4 1991 model and we are having problems. The car ran well for about 400km after we bought it but then started to 'jump' -most noticeably when we slowed down. At times the juddering was quite violent and it was a worry to be on the road knowing that we couldn't bank on maintaining any particular speed. We've had the spark plugs changed, the distributor changed, the coil checked, replaced a couple of tubes - one had a hole (!) and each time it runs well for about 400km then the same problems start. Unfortunately we've now hit another problem in that the car won't start at all. I've read a few posts with similar problems but not exactly the same and could really do with some help. One of the reasons we bought this is that they are known for being easy to repair ...
Click to expand...
Another thing to check (it'll take seconds) is that the arrowed hose hasn't become detached from the manifold. If it has, it can produce the symptoms you describe.
Good luck!
Hose to manifold.jpg
 
Thank you all for your suggestions :) So far, we've discovered that the condenser isn't actually attached to the distributor - it's either come loose or wasn't attached when the distributor was replaced - and we've found another hole in another pipe. Weather permitting these two will be sorted today and then we'll see what happens next. The fuel filter is fine and the floater was checked just the other day - but it was a past problem so you're on the mark, 'angel'. All fingers crossed, and I'll let you know how we get on.
 
Had the same on mine I replaced the points and condenser and all good again. I did service the carb before this and it didn't solve the problem
 
Hello thanks Richnd1974 - we'll double check those too. We have managed to get it started now but need to look at the timing - any advice on how to do this would be appreciated :)
 
There are TWO points to appreciate here:
1/ The points gap. This is the gap between the 2 halves of the points, measured by feeler gauges, at the point when the points are at their maximum opening. If you have a dwell meter, this gap can be more accurately set by using this measure, which is 56 degrees. (Using a dwell meter is time consuming, but more accurate than the feeler gauge method.) The points gap MUST be set first BEFORE setting the timing, as adjusting the gap affects the timing. I can explain how to use a dwell meter if you need it!

2/ The timing point. This is the point at which the points open, and varies, depending on the model. Once you've ascertained where the timing marks for your model are, mark them with a small amount of white paint (Tippex is best) At this stage there are two methods of adjusting the timing;

a/ the static method, which is more easily done with the sparking plugs removed, although it's not essential. You need to line up the two timing marks together and then unscrew the clamp holding the distributor. Using a 5 watt bulb with two wires & clips on the ends, clip one end to the battery earth and the other to the "C.B." or points side of the coil. When the ignition is ON and the points are closed the current will flow from the battery, though the coil to earth through the points. As the points OPEN the current won't be able to run through the points, and so will run through the bulb, lighting it. This is the point we need to find, so switch the ignition on and g-e-n-t-l-y and s-l-o-w-l-y twist the distributor to arrive at the position where the light bulb is j-u-s-t starting to light-this is the point where the points are j-u-s-t starting to open. Tighten the clamp on the distributor body, to hold it in the position, remove the lightbulb & wires, (put the plugs back in if they were removed & reconnect the H.T. leads) and take the car for a run.

b/ the dynamic method involves a strobe light, so I'll wait a bit before explaining it....

Good luck!
 
Check your plug gaps and points gap make sure they are ok, warm up engine ,slacken the dizzy and very slowly turn it until the engine is running the smoothest and fast lock it off
You should then adjust the idle on the carb. Is this a new dizzy?
 
Thank you! I think investing in a Haynes manual or similar might be a good idea - this is a Renault 4TL carte jeunes 1991 model - 956 engine. Any recommendations?
 
la4ldesylvie.fr is an excellent site - this page might be useful:

Calage de l’avance à l’allumage (dynamique et statique)

Calage de l'allumage sur une Renault 4 (tous modèles) avec la méthode dynamique ou la méthode statique.
www.la4ldesylvie.fr www.la4ldesylvie.fr

If you do get a Haynes manual, make sure it's the edition that covers models up to 86, otherwise there won't be any info at all on the 1108 engined models (to all intents and purposes, it's the 'same' engine as the 956). Even the French Revue Technique for the 1108 has just a couple of extra pages that cover the differences between the 1108 and 956 engines. If you like, I can pm you those pages.
 
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Andy McGhee said:
la4ldesylvie.fr is an excellent site - this page might be useful:

Calage de l’avance à l’allumage (dynamique et statique)

Calage de l'allumage sur une Renault 4 (tous modèles) avec la méthode dynamique ou la méthode statique.
www.la4ldesylvie.fr www.la4ldesylvie.fr

If you do get a Haynes manual, make sure it's the edition that covers models up to 86, otherwise there won't be any info at all on the 1108 engined models (to all intents and purposes, it's the 'same' engine as the 956). Even the French Revue Technique for the 1108 has just a couple of extra pages that cover the differences between the 1108 and 956 engines. If you like, I can pm you those pages.
Click to expand...
Thanks Andy.
 
Andrew4Renaults said:
There are TWO points to appreciate here:
1/ The points gap. This is the gap between the 2 halves of the points, measured by feeler gauges, at the point when the points are at their maximum opening. If you have a dwell meter, this gap can be more accurately set by using this measure, which is 56 degrees. (Using a dwell meter is time consuming, but more accurate than the feeler gauge method.) The points gap MUST be set first BEFORE setting the timing, as adjusting the gap affects the timing. I can explain how to use a dwell meter if you need it!

2/ The timing point. This is the point at which the points open, and varies, depending on the model. Once you've ascertained where the timing marks for your model are, mark them with a small amount of white paint (Tippex is best) At this stage there are two methods of adjusting the timing;

a/ the static method, which is more easily done with the sparking plugs removed, although it's not essential. You need to line up the two timing marks together and then unscrew the clamp holding the distributor. Using a 5 watt bulb with two wires & clips on the ends, clip one end to the battery earth and the other to the "C.B." or points side of the coil. When the ignition is ON and the points are closed the current will flow from the battery, though the coil to earth through the points. As the points OPEN the current won't be able to run through the points, and so will run through the bulb, lighting it. This is the point we need to find, so switch the ignition on and g-e-n-t-l-y and s-l-o-w-l-y twist the distributor to arrive at the position where the light bulb is j-u-s-t starting to light-this is the point where the points are j-u-s-t starting to open. Tighten the clamp on the distributor body, to hold it in the position, remove the lightbulb & wires, (put the plugs back in if they were removed & reconnect the H.T. leads) and take the car for a run.

b/ the dynamic method involves a strobe light, so I'll wait a bit before explaining it....

Good luck!
Click to expand...
My father always used card torn from a cigarette pack to set the points gap!
 
ABSOLUTELY! That was the "back of a fag packet" (quite literally!) method we used in extremis at the roadside, too!
 
Same trick with ciggy packets worked well on beetles aswell, aswell as the girlfriends tights acting as a temporary emergency fan belt!
 
Currently spending spare time prepping and sanding, back door has taken a lot longer to get ‘right’ than expected, but now done, but just want to get it so I’m totally happy with it before I put paint on, so right now it looks as if progress has gone backwards, but in reality hasn’t, just dusty primer block work, doing a course in Gallego for 4months which is not easy even after course in Castellano ( necc.for work here) so spare time is not what it was, Gallego is more similar to Portugese than Spanish, so car prep.has turned into relaxation therapy right now, bit ‘Golden Nugget’ style (hopefully) if you have seen that on Youtube. Tights where when it was daytime, the stockings evening/night ‘entertainment’,unfortunately belt broke on the M4 in day on way to one of the first ‘Run to the Sun’ cruises from London to Newquay in daytime;)
(Coincidental note, small world stuff, used to use same place in Boreham Wood for starters etc.great place, if they were snowed under, the place on Hanger Lane roundabout...)
 
Hello all - many thanks for all the advice so far. It's now running again but ... It starts, it ticks over nicely when stationary but as soon you put your foot onto the accelerator, it cuts out. On full choke, you can drive it and it doesn't cut. So, we've made several circuits of the village square, on full choke, but that's it.
Does this sound like a timing issue? Luckily the points haven't been damaged although they were too close but have now been reset
Any ideas?
Jacqueline
 
Re-setting the points gap means that you now need to re-set the timing. I've outlined the static method above, but I agree that getting the engine running smoothly at about 2000 RPM, then turning the distributor until the engine's running at its maximum speed is a good way to get it near enough!

What you describe still sounds like a fuelling problem, not an ignition problem. Putting you foot on the accelerator opens the main jet, and if this makes the engine stall without the choke means the mixture is being excessively weakened by the throttle's opening and the choke's compensating for this. In my days in a V.W. garage this would be called a "flat spot" and they were notoriously difficult to sort. Have a look at the following:
1/ Is the carburettor to inlet manifold join air-tight? Spraying around it with WD40 is a good way to find out; if the engine revs change, you've a leak that needs sorting!
2/ Spray the carburettor in the same manner; again, a change in revs could mean a hairline crack in the carb.
3/ In spite of all the above, my money is on a incorrectly set/damaged/loose main or acceleration jet!
 
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