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Renault 4 vs Citroen 2CV

malcolm

malcolm

& Clementine the Cat
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Why do we run Renault 4s rather than Citroen 2CVs? (I thought I'd be controversial).

Some members have both. A couple have larger Citroens but chose R4s as their small car. Some (like me) have no Citroens at all. (Although I did once run a BX with no dampers.)

I don't want to put the Citroen down. Parts (and ...er...chassis) availability alone would make the 2CV a more sensible buy.

What is it about the Renault 4 that attracts you guys?

:clementi:
 
2CV:- Chassis rusts quicker than our cars. Rust also appears in the most awkward places on the body due to the guage of metal used. (If you thought our cars were made of thin metal - look again).

Interesting to drive - I have never managed to roll one despite trying. Lovely to work on and easy accessability of major components. I could do a clutch on the side of the road with the minimum of tools. Starters can be fitted with your eyes shut! Steering racks last forever as do the rear swinging arm bearings. Air cooled so no head gasket problems or overheating. If the heads leak though, you get a nasty smell through the heater.

R4's:- Better built, stronger metal, better handling, engine life marginally better than the 2CV. Pig to do a clutch or starter in comparison. Better heater, better brakes. Rust repairs a pain unless you have a new chassis (like me :D ).

More complicated than the 2CV, but in the coming years I reckon there will be more 4's on the road due to the awareness of people like ourselves in keeping that all important chassis preserved.

Steve
 
2CV- fun to drive but I'd be scared stiff of driving it where I might go off the road or hit another car at speed. Great for shopping or going places where you're only going to hit a bike or a goat. Suspension and seats great but not that different to an R4 with the soft suspension option. handling/steering at least as good as the old 4 I had, maybe not as good as a later car with bigger antiroll bars and revised caster angles?

Re working on them- a typical cause of MOT failure (and scrapping) was the difficulty in removing front brake discs. 2CVs I guess have some chance because they were cute but millions of Dyanes must have been scrapped because of front brakes.


R4- more like a baby ID 19 under the skin. Proven I think by the fact that a lot of contempery french 2-car families had a a big Citroen and a little Renault, rather than 2 citroens. Or is that just me being petit-bourgeouisie? I suspect the R4 would take a lot more punishment.

PS- how do people drive 2CVs so fast? I remember back in the nineteen eighties driving over the Hog's Back in a brand new rental Fiesta and being totally blown off the road by some LITTLE GIRL in a red 2CV doing something like eighty.
 
Good topic.

I think the major advantage the 2CV has over the 4 is that all 2CV's have roll-back roofs. Although if you have an original sunroof 4, this obviously won't matter.

otherwise I prefer the look of the Renault 4. It has a smile on its face, an aloof expression if seen from behind, an unmistakable sounding (billancourt) engine. I quite like the look of it. This may sound strange but it seems more 'honed' that the slightly blunt 2CV. The 2CV has all those curvy bits and the stick-up lights, but all cars had those until the forties, so its not unique.

The interior of the R4 is a nicer place to be. The 2CV feels a bit like a tractor.

I much prefer the 2CVs from the sixties and before. Any ones newer than that just seem like a twee novelty, and the colour schemes were not good.

I prefer the way R4 are still in use as actual cars, doing what they were built to do.

There is no logical reason why I like R4s, I just do. Its a real characterful car, not a 'look at me' car. But a 2CV is just a car with all the disadvantages of the Renault 4, without actually being a Renault 4.

I know the Renault 4 inherited most of its little differences fromt he 2CV, but I think they have completely different characters. The 2CV is like a cross betweena 4 and a VW beetle.
 
I went to look at a few 2CVs before buying Rosalie the Renault 4. I might have bought one if I'd seen one in good enough condition but all the ones I saw seemed a bit scruffy. Also I once has a bad experience with a VW Beetle that put me off air cooled engines.

I think the Renault 4 is like a cross between a 2CV and a proper car. It's not unreasonable to use a Renault 4 for long distance driving, and I've been up to Scotland in mine (as well as Spain). I think the 2CV might have been a little tiring on these trips.

Call me an old man with a flat cap and whippets, but the other thing that is really useful about the 4 is the fact you can carry absolutely anything in the back. I've had a full size freezer, a safe and a motorcycle in my 4s.

I remember an excellent article by the late Phil Llewellin in Popular Classics back in 1992 marking the end of Renault 4 production. He expressed similar sentiments. He described the Renault 4 as a classless holdall on wheels. I'd love to get hold of a copy of that article if anyone has one.

The roll back roof has to be a big attraction for the 2CV. I'll add this feature to the spec for my ideal R4.
 
R4s are cool because they're less obvious than 2CVs, and so a bit more anarchic. Everyone has got a 2CV, or knows someone who had one once, but R4s are for the connosieur (I used to know someone who thought that my R4 was a 2CV...)! And they've got those funny little handles attached to the front wings, which are the last word in automotive chic! They're a really cool shape with nice detailing too, and the hidden interior door handles are always a laugh when the uninitiated can't work out how to get out. That the steering wheel is in a sensible position (unlike the 2CV's, which feels like a bus steering wheel) is an added bonus. They're better for carrying stuff (2CVs are surprisingly small inside, and the only usefully-sized opening is the roof - not much help if you want to carry something heavy as well as bulky), and you don't have to grease the R4's kingpins every 1500 miles. Tyres are cheap too (unlike 2CV tyres, which are a funny size unique to the Citroen and thus bloody expensive).

2CVs are cool because they make a nicer noise, are easier to work on, and you can get parts for them (you could build a brand new 2CV from parts straight off the shelf). The 2CV engine is also one of the best designs in the history of the universe; expensive to make, but a true thoroughbred, and utterly indestructible - almost a grand prix engine in miniature. A 2CV is also faster than an 845cc R4, and much less tiring on a long journey, and they were designed to run on unleaded fuel (useful these days).

I used to commute fairly regularly between Ringwood (Hampshire) and Coventry, which is 150 miles each way, almost exclusively on motorways and dual-carriageways. My 2CV and R4 (an 1108cc GTL) both used to manage it easily, although the R4 would do the journey in marginally less time. I once drove nearly 7000 miles from Hampshire to Lisbon and back in the 2CV (via Montpellier, Andorra, Barcelona, Valencia, Costa del Sol, Gibraltar, Sevilla, the Algarve, etc.). That sort of journey in some cars would make you never want to see one again for the rest of your life, but I'd happily do it again in the 2CV. I've not tried it in an R4 yet...

The ultimate would be a hybrid combining the best features of each car, but failing that, one of each (which is what I've got).
:cool:
 
I enjoyed reading this thread which i was directed to from a google. I've joined to learn about R4s and maybe considering one for the future. It offers a bit more accomodation than other small classics. I have fond memories of being taken to school in one; we sat in the back and one day found the rear door wasn't secure - this was prodded upwards numerous times without the driver noticing... crazy things we do as children!

It was interesting to read your comparisons - i like both cars (and trying to decide between them!).

However, no one commented on the mechanical side of things so much. The R4 has an aluminium wet liner engine. I've found them notorious (i've experience of the Reliant 3-wheelers) for mayo and rebuilding compared with a cast iron block. That does put me off. Gearboxes - how do they compare? The Reliant gearbox is one of the nicest gearboxes i've found on any car.

Perhaps i have a different view of things when considering a car - mechanicals and bodywork first and then looks and other issues. Spares availablility? How hard is the chassis on the R4 to cope with - looks to me as if the thing to do is get the body off and one can do the necessary.
 
All your questions can be answered by searchng this forum! However, the R4 does not have an aluminium block - it's cast iron with an aluminium head and water problems are quite rare. If you want water problems then buy an Hillman Imp!!!
 
Many of my reasons for having a R4 are shared by a 2cv, the difference is I got my first R4 cheap. (Have been tempted to do a 2cv electric conversion tho!)

Also i'm not sure about this one but i'm guessing I wouldn't be able to fit as much in the back of a 2cv!
 
Hi there. Its not quite unique, Ferguson tractors, Triumph sports cars and Standard Vanguards, all used basically the same engine block which was made of cast-iron with wet-liners. Although I have never driven a 2CV, and Im sure they are a great little car, it is the R4 for me.:cool:
 
Yes - i realised that after i posted. Tr3s were a wet liner cast iron block but with the R4 being a later car i thought it was aluminium.
 
Hi,I'm lucky having both 2cv Mehari and renault 4,their both a bit of learning curve after your average car,both with driving and maintaining and the ear to ear smile they bring whilst driving. I would like to take both to thenay,but I might get lynched in 2cv.See you there. Best
 
don't mean to but might sound a bit "up-tight"comparing (depends where you're at) but I prefer my F4 anyday to my Alpine V6 Turbo which is a hoot to drive hard and fast around the Porche-prohibited bends but has all kind of electronic scary bits falling apart (not helped by a so'called Alpine-specialist in Fere Champenoise (F) turned out to be THE con-artist amongst men.................................................-R.
 
alewis said:
Have been tempted to do a 2cv electric conversion
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understood: You would like to swap the electric system of a 2cv on a r4?
What kind of advantage you hope to achieve?
I wonder if it is a so simple work...

Andrea scripsit.
 
When I got my driving license I had to decide whether I would keep the (family owned) 1975 R4 or exchange it with a 1985 2CV Special.
Although back at the time I was thinking a 2CV was more fun and had a more charmful character than a R4, I decided to keep the R4, mainly because it was going to be my one and everyday car and was far more practical for loading, in-city parking and driving. Today I have not regretted, and I still prefer the R4 to 2CV.
-Far more practical in everyday use (driving position, visibility, boot space, heater, noise, economy...). Important for me, as I don't have any modern car (neither would I like to have any!), and my car has to carry anything, from five persons to mountain bikes, to garage equipment, to spare parts...most of them impossible to fit in a 2CV.
-It's true that the 2CV has greater parts availability, but in real life, this is half of the truth. For regular maintenance or repair work, and if you live outside France, Germany, or the UK (where the main web parts shops are located) the R4 is far ahead. Components like bearings, seals, brake parts, electric parts, tyres (don't overlook this!) even screws and nuts are either industry standard or widely used on other cars. The 2CV "believes in its own god" as we say here... OK, if you ever need a new chassis or soft-top or seat upholstery you have no choice on the R4...but in real life you will more often need a driveshaft or a wheel cylinder, and need to find them quickly and cheaply.
-That said, new and secondhand R4 parts tend to be a lot cheaper here than 2CV ones.
-I always didn't like to drive mainstream classic cars, like Beetles, Minis, Alfa Romeos...the 2CV certainly falls in this category in our country, the R4 not!
-Having four opening windows and adequate heat insulation from the roof and engine heat is very important here...
But there was always a point where the 2CV would score higher, this is the sunroof. I knew I would miss open top driving on summer evenings with the R4, so I promised myself that I would fit a factory sunroof to my R4 one day. Well, this dream came true seven years later, when I bought my Jogging. Now there is nothing that would place a 2CV higher than an R4 in my eyes!
 
My parents had both cars, we grew up with my dad loving his Renault 4's and 6's which were company cars at the time. His boss then went and got him a 1976 Vauxhall Chevette, which although the handling was good was an awful oil leaking machine! After he became self employed he found a chap who rebuilt crash damaged 2 cv's and dyanes, which we drove around for years. We lived the engines and they were fantastically thrashable but weren't very economical if driven properly. My mother got done for speeding in hers several times.

We ended up building a Lomax three wheeler kit car from a crashed Dyane, that was fun!

But when I came to wanting a classic french car then I much prefer the Renaults. My own favourite would be similar to Angels a four with a factory sunroof would be my choice. If I find a roof with one in then I may have to convert mine.
 
Bertl said:
I think he means something like this:

http://www.evpermanent.com/en/info3en.php
Click to expand...

Very cool...
It is very interesting, a bit too limited still, I will wait for the technology to develop a bit before thinking of such a change...
But we have to begin searching a solution for the end of petrol...

Yes I know, even electric energy depends on petrol, but I have to dream a bit, I fear the day I cannot more afford driving my r4...

Andrea scripsit.
 
I think I could live with the limitations of speed and possible distance, but I can't afford to shell out k€ for batteries alone for what would essentially be a hobbyist project.
Mind you, if you invested a bit more to build a rack of solar panels as well ...
 
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