Sunfire with ICE in air duct!

[mike_needs_help]

Hi all, I am discouraged, I am frustrated ! Thought I'd post that here since all I found about this problem was on your forum on a Reneault
I need you to try your best to solve this problem.

Very simple:
My car: Sunfire 2004 automatic ecotec motor.

Problem: I live in Quebec, Canada. My car stalls whenever it's a humid and cold

weather . It's been two years now.

- The 2 repair guys told me they could not understand WHY theres ice forming in the

air conduct , ice that melts and then produces humidity and water going in my motor.

They could not find WHY this could happen even calling GM pontiac.

- Spent enough money on "testing" .

I really need to hear from you guys, even if you don't know how to solve it, I'm open

to any contacts you may have to solve this. Its a pain in ... to stall all of the

time on a cold weather here... Please help.

Here's a pic, I have removed the air conduct and snapped a pix to show you that even

in cool weather at night, some water forms in it.

Important fact. No check engine lights on, and my air filter is totally DRY so I know

it's not comming from there.

 

[malcolm]

It probably is getting in through the air filter. Air contains moisture which at outside temperatures stays in the air like a gas. If the temperature is reduced water will form droplets (like on a misty cold day). That tends to happen inside the intake when pressure is reduced and the air expands. If the walls of the intake are cold water can condense on the walls.

Are there any heating pipes going to the inlet manifold on your car? Maybe they are blocked or have air locks and the manifold is not being heated. Of if it's a sports manifold did the original have heating?

Only other thought is if the air filter has been replaced for a sports part or if the air filter is blocked that could make the problem slightly worse.

 

[reidalpine]

HI there in Nanook-country!
I think Malcolm -or is it Clementine the cat? is on to something.

To get rid of the condensation in the pipe I would locate LOWEST point on level ground ,drill a small hole ,press in the collarpart of poprivet from inside and press on plastic or rubber-tube on to the collar from outside..

I love 5-dime solutions to a $500 problems!

To preheat inlet I would buy a good lenght of brake-tube,the semi-soft coppertype. find the lowest point of inlet-hose to rad.
curl the coppertube tight around the inlet-hose a good 10 rounds
then draw the two ends paralell up to the inlet drill 2 holes in the inlet-pipe.make another nice curl (like a coil of spring) inside the inlet-pipe. Fill up the brake-line with antifreeze screw them together one male one female fitting..
Soon after start up the inlet-pipe to rad should be hot enough so antifreeze in brakepipe will travel up due to ziphon-effect cooled off by air it will sink down-replaced by hot stuff coming up...

Reg.d trade-name:CLC-CN (Closed Loop Circuit for Cold Nanooks)

-I have a MitsuBITCH with same problem-This One problem solved but lots of other problems with it -I've had it with this sorry excuse of a car so one of these days I will put an ad in the paper inviting frustrated M'Bitch owners to a KILL A 'BITCH BATCH outside the main entrance of Norwegian M'Bitch importer.
-Hope you get it going soon-and Remember! Don't eat the yellow snow!! -R.

 

[mike_needs_help]

HEY thanks for your help! Here's an answer I got from another guy . What do you think about it ? Thanks

--------------


This is a variation on carburetor 'icing' which has been a problem on some carbureted vehicles for decades.

The ice is coming from moisture in the air. There is no extra water going into the engine at all.
What is happening is when the air passes through the intake system, there is an air pressure drop as per Bernouli's principle.

The pressure drop allows the moisture in the air to fall out of suspension and freeze at the point of low pressure, which forms ice in the intake manifold.

Many cars use some method of heating the intake manifold and/or air going into the engine to avoid this problem.

Many cars use a 'heat riser' tube. This is a duct which allows warmer air to be drawn from around the exhaust manifold and sucked into the intake manifold, thus preventing ice from forming. Usually the ducts are thermally controlled so they only draw this warm air when the air temp and/or engine is cold.

Many cars use engine coolant circulated through the intake manifold, through their own passages. The coolant does not come in contact with the incoming air; it just warms up the intake manifold, so ice does not form. If your engine has such passages, it is possible they are blocked by debris or were not assembled or manufactured properly.

I am not sure which, if any, manifold heating system your uses.
However, I am sure there is something not working properly on your car as all GM cars tend to work well in cold weather.

This post is just a suggestion for where to look. IMO if your mechanic does not understand the principles of intake manifold icing then he is not a good mechanic.
I can understand a mechanic from a warm climate not knowing, but Quebec??? He should know. If he doesn't, get another mechanic.

 

[malcolm]

Sounds like he's saying the same thing as reidalpine and myself (must be right then ).

Those Sunfires do seem to get modified a lot. I'd bet you've got modified parts on there that are causing the problem. I refuse to buy aftermarket sports parts these days - they tend to be designed by someone in their back yard and don't go through the same development as the original manifacturer would do to iron out these issues.

 

[mike_needs_help]

Yeah, that's probably what happened. I buy it used and it was already 2 years old. Is there a way I can check if the air filter position is on "winter" or not?

 

[malcolm]

I don't know the car, but most modern cars don't have a hose that you have to move manually. About 25 years ago some cars had a thermostat inside the air filter box that could draw air from a hose to the exhaust or a hose to the front of the car depending on air temperature. But that's rare these days.

Surely a dealer for those cars would know what is supposed to be fitted to warm the inlet air.

 

[mike_needs_help]

HI there in Nanook-country!
I think Malcolm -or is it Clementine the cat? is on to something.

To get rid of the condensation in the pipe I would locate LOWEST point on level ground ,drill a small hole ,press in the collarpart of poprivet from inside and press on plastic or rubber-tube on to the collar from outside..

I love 5-dime solutions to a $500 problems!

To preheat inlet I would buy a good lenght of brake-tube,the semi-soft coppertype. find the lowest point of inlet-hose to rad.
curl the coppertube tight around the inlet-hose a good 10 rounds
then draw the two ends paralell up to the inlet drill 2 holes in the inlet-pipe.make another nice curl (like a coil of spring) inside the inlet-pipe. Fill up the brake-line with antifreeze screw them together one male one female fitting..
Soon after start up the inlet-pipe to rad should be hot enough so antifreeze in brakepipe will travel up due to ziphon-effect cooled off by air it will sink down-replaced by hot stuff coming up...

Reg.d trade-name:CLC-CN (Closed Loop Circuit for Cold Nanooks)

-I have a MitsuBITCH with same problem-This One problem solved but lots of other problems with it -I've had it with this sorry excuse of a car so one of these days I will put an ad in the paper inviting frustrated M'Bitch owners to a KILL A 'BITCH BATCH outside the main entrance of Norwegian M'Bitch importer.
-Hope you get it going soon-and Remember! Don't eat the yellow snow!! -R.

HEy REID, have mercy on me!
I bought my break tube but I don't understand how to install it. Please try to re-explain it again in a more clear way. Please help me! I really need to install this since it's getting cold here and I have no cash since I'm gonna be married soon! lol
I beg you my friend from NORWAY !!!!