The "new" Renault 4? Thanks but no...

[4Latas]

Renault and its qwirkyness always produced some iconic cars until some years ago. Honestly, I think from the nineties on, Renault is just a corporation trying to flog cheap, nasty plastic unreliable vehicles at the higher price they possibly can.
Whoever owned a megane knows what I am talking about...I would never ever risk buying a modern Renault. I love the 4,5,6,8,10,12 ,estaffette van, and even the 9 and the 11, but from the Clio onwards ( who they "proudly" announced at the time that had some less screws and fixings than the R5), you can keep all that cr*p. This goes for any other french car.

The Renault 4 was the first car that put Renault in the limelight, and started to seel in decent numbers. Renault owes the R4 something like a " retro" inspired model.

The Renault 4 is an extremely difficult to work and sparcely equipped car, which opens the door via a hole in the door and secures the header tank with a piece of inner tube. Which you can hose the inside, as I often do. That drives like a 2cv and selects gears from a walking stick protruding from the dash.But this simplicity and feeling always made us forgive and worship the Renault 4.

But we all know that if Renault started to produce a "new" retro inspired "4", it would have the size of a megane, and the doors would be clogged with every switch and eletrics you can think of.Would look as ridiculous as the "new Fiat 500", that has a roof of the same size of the old one, but the base of a Ducato van! Or like the "New Beetle" with a Diesel front engine. It would have air conditioning, and maybe as a freebee, to resemble remotely like the "four" would have a stilish rectangular grille and...er...that would be it! Worse still, it would be bought by school mums and Real estate agents.

"New" Renault 4? No, thanks...Ill keep mine.

 

[renault4mad]

WOW....your on one tonight...lol...
i work on modern renaults as my job and would never buy a new renault...i drive a 1995 clio diesel and a base w reg kangoo...no over electrics..just base models

 

[lazyduck15]

I join 4Latas. R4 will never have a modern clone. They just have to KISS (Keep it simple s..)

 

[politeperson]

Fat Cars

I agree with 4latas,

If I were to give Renault a design brief for a new Renault 4 it would have to contain the following design parameters.

Basically it would make use of super high tech materials and technology to reduce weight, increase efficiency and capabilities. Costs of production would be reduced by the huge numbers sold.

Vehicle weight 600kgs. max (less would be better).

As many weight saving measures as possible by virtue of material use and design including

thin "stretched elastic band" seats,

no more than 10kg per front seat.

Speakers in the head rests to save speaker weight.

Dashboard replaced by a simple laptop like configurable display with satnav and blue tooth, aluminium and carbon fiber separate chassis with bolt on body if possible to allow modular changes. Car will still drive if all this lot fails.

135mm width lightweight tyres 14 inches in diameter.

No door locks, electronic entry only.

Torsion bar suspension to allow low centre of gravity and small amount of body intrusion.

Option of a spare wheel for off road customers most cars have aerosol tyre inflator for European sales to save weight.

Paint on surfaces only where it is needed.

4 doors.

Rear tailgate with flat load area.

Euro compliant crash protection, including crumple zones, side impact bars air bags etc. Each door to weigh no more than the original Renault 4 with sliding windows.

seating for 4 adults, with removable rear seats. Rubber mat flooring.

Off road capability by virtue of road clearance, long wheel travel, thin tyres, front wheel drive, good arrival and departure angles. Reasonable on road handling with a relatively high seating position and soft springs.

Electronically controlled fuel injection and ignition systems by ultra tough ecu. You cannot get rid of ecus, but you can ensure the wiring harness is in easy separable sections in the event of damage.

Super efficient light weight 1 litre 50hp petrol engine with 100 mpg capability and 80mph top speed at no more than 3000 rpm and 85 db inside at top speed.

100,000 miles warranty on major mechanical components and 15 year anti perforation rust guarantee. Cheaper than a Clio.

As far as marketing goes I would announce to the world it was a tough car for Africa and give some Journalists a go. They would then sing the roof tops ho the car combines cutting edge modern technology with a lack of bloat. Then, get Angelina Jolie to drive one, get a few more celebrity endorsements and then say that due to public demand you are going to release it in Europe.

Job done.

 

[Lobster]

I'd tend to agree on new Renaults although in fairness both my '99 Twingo and '00 Clio 16V were fine cars with no real issues but you do here a lot about new Renaults having 'issues'. But then the same (and more so) could be said about quite a few manufacturers.

That said, if I was in a position to buy one then I would absolutely love a RenaultSport Twingo and I'm sure I could tolerate the odd problem!

 

[Azazello]

I agree with 4latas,

If I were to give Renault a design brief for a new Renault 4 it would have to contain the following design parameters.

We already had a couple of threads about new r4 on this forum, and everyone had his thoughts and ideas about the new r4-to-be shape and aesthetic design; you are the first one talking of technical issues...
I appreciate it, even if I do not agree or completely understand all of them.

 

[RichardIRL]

Renault and its qwirkyness always produced some iconic cars until some years ago. Honestly, I think from the nineties on, Renault is just a corporation trying to flog cheap, nasty plastic unreliable vehicles at the higher price they possibly can.
Whoever owned a megane knows what I am talking about...

I agree that modern Renault products are not particularly high quality or long lasting, but I dispute your assertion that this was exclusively from the nineties onwards.

They have never been high quality as far as I can see.

Renault has produced imaginative and successful designs, but the actual cars have never been long-lasting, nor has the build-quality ever been outstanding.

Renault 4's had a number of issues which, given the longevity of the model, Renault could easily have identified and resolved but didn't bother. It seems they want their cars to last for a few years only.

With regard to your statement that they produced some iconic cars until some years ago, I don't think that's accurate either. They have always produced boring, unimaginative cars alongside their more interesting designs - think of the Renault 20/30, Renault 10, Renault 9/11, Renault 18 etc.

None of their current line-up stands out as iconic, but they are producing very capable Renaultsport versions that are likely to become classics in the future.

But we all know that if Renault started to produce a "new" retro inspired "4", it would have the size of a megane, and the doors would be clogged with every switch and eletrics you can think of.Would look as ridiculous as the "new Fiat 500", that has a roof of the same size of the old one, but the base of a Ducato van! Or like the "New Beetle" with a Diesel front engine. It would have air conditioning, and maybe as a freebee, to resemble remotely like the "four" would have a stilish rectangular grille and...er...that would be it! Worse still, it would be bought by school mums and Real estate agents.

The point of the new versions of iconic models is to have a stylish, comfortable car that can be sold as a premium model.

If a version of the Renault 4 were to be produced with the same design brief of the original, it would probably look like the Dacia Logan or Sandero.

I think it would be very difficult to design a car that fulfils the purpose that the Renault 4 was designed for while looking like it at the same time.

 

[angel]

I wholeheartedly agree with both 4Latas and politeperson, but modern car marketing and buyers just don't want cars built like this, so no one would really buy them. Who knows, maybe trends will change at some time...

 

[bison]

New R4

Sign me up for the model Politeperson specified!.
But sadly I would have to agree with Angel, there is at present no demand for utility type vehicles, everyone wants the gadgets and buttons. This could, and probably will, change though, perhaps if Mr Renault is realising this, they could be innovators of a new trend, ultra economical vehicles not only in use but in manufacture?.
I live in hope, but in the meantime, I'll continue to save the planet by using my R4TL.
Alan.

 

[reidalpine]

Sadly have to agree with all above..seems Renault dont care AT ALL about their customers.Soon as you have paid your money they want you out the door Fast.
The situation re all the electronic-issues seems never to end (in fairness it should be pointed out that many other manufacturers also have their fair share of problematic
-In my opinion the Real culprit is the fact that all electronic-components now is Made in China or other "cheap" places-these have made an art out of using the cheapest/nastiest componentry they possibly can get away with-components working Just on -or outside the frame/temp/value etc in which these were meant to work.
Also components used have larger (unwanted) variations.Due to lacking or simply no QC.

As Chinese lay their clammy hands on the likes of Motorola etc.the world are left dangling by our ballbearings for any/all whims (or worse) of the Chinese .
-It's High time car-electronics is standarised Plus fully adjustable.
with product-variations on engines/drivelines as high or higher than 10% electronics Must be made tunable/adjustable.
It's high time the rest of the world Informs China et.al that we no longer allows or even wants this Manufacture-for-Landfill policy.
This is The place we could really save the environment!
If Renault were to make a new R4 today I fear it would end up as JUST cheap&nasty,totally lacking any personality,and look like the Logan,sadly to me it seems Chez Renault have totally lost their imagination and direction .
Over here in Norway Renault import/dealership is now in bed with MitsuBITCH ,for me that is the last nail in the coffin-I will never Ever go there again.
All of this makes it that much more important to keep on keeping on R4-ing...
-R.

 

[politeperson]

Is the new Renault 4 being made in Africa today?

Now , this could be just what we need, the Rock Auto from Africa. What a beautiful creation.

 

[barnfind]

It reminds me of the ill fated Africar from the late 80's.

Here is a photo. It was 2CV based.( I had to Google to find that out).

 

[malcolm]

Looks like a Rodeo!

I've got a 2002 Clio Diesel. It was market leading for engine noise and fuel economy (if not for ride) at the time and is still competitive. Can get 75mpg out of it with a lot of care, but always over 65mpg. Will likely change it for a newer one in a year or two.

The utilitarian market segment has gone away in western Europe. So many nice cars knocking about these days that even hardened R4 folk like me will buy a second hand car rather than a new ultra basic one with fewer luxuries. Second hand cars weren't an option when the R4 was launched.

The Renault 4 has it's place in history, and we'll not see anything quite so revolutionary until we really want to start saving fuel. Good on Renault for appreciating the Renault 4's place in history and supporting the 50th anniversary so well this year.

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

I just came across this car at random, much of its specs seem to ring a bell – rugged, functional, body-on-frame design, with a short wheelbase, high ground clearance and generous suspension travel. Its styling looks familiar too - look at the grille, the vertical windscreen and the curvy rear end. Is the Toyota FJ Cruiser the nearest thing to a modern Renault 4 equivalent (in SUV form)?

 

[mike4gtl]

This is why i want to put a diesel in an R4

 

[snailshed]

As a 2cv owner also this thread has much correlation with similar excitement / doubts over Citroen producing a 'new' 2cv of which various design studies have been bandied about over the years. There was quite a lot of hoo haa when the Pluriel came out that it embraced the modern 2cv ethos (taken to its woeful climax with the hideous Pluriel in two tone Burgundy / black colours to hark back to the first model 2cv Charlestons - google it for a laugh!), but I think this is rubbish.

Look back at the basic design brief for a 2cv and it can be summed up as simple, basic cheap transport for four adults with some luggage in reasonable comfort for minimal price. In the late 90's Citroen did produce a new 2cv. It was called the Berlingo.

Similarly I've always considered the Kangoo ('car' version) to be the 90's Renault 4, based on Renault interpreting the original R4 design brief for the then current time. The only difference I can see being that the Kangoo 4 x 4 wasn't built by Sinpar! Although I've not owned one I think in 90's / 00's terms the Kangoo is one of Renaults more memorable designs from this period (though would stop short of describing it as an iconic design), and would wager that the 4x4 model may ultimately become slightly sought after given time...

 

[barnfind]

I agree with Malcolm. The market has moved on.
It's a form of evolution. My generation of drivers started out with a first car like a Moggy 1000, that had its roots in the 1940's and was very basic in almost all respects. In real terms, only rust could kill it off, because most of the rest of the technology was repairable.
However, since then, market pressures for more sophistication, combined with all sorts of legislation, means that a basic car in 2011 has as many features on it as many a luxury car had in 1971, when I started driving. So, most of the new drivers today will have started out with an old Corsa, or Punto and will assume that power steering, electric windows and servo brakes are minimum spec. The downside is that an elderly example of one of these cars is more likely to be killed off economically by a faulty ABS unit, than a rusty suspension mounting.

So, to be commercially viable, your evolved Renault 4 (or other classic) will inevitably be a modern car in an old shaped body. The true basic car a la R4/2CV only now seems to survive in countries like India, where Mr Tata makes, I believe, some extremely primitive cars for local consumption.

 

[alewis]

Another items of interest is how items we use to consider basic and never failing starting to cause problems again.

BMW wheels cracking
Mini power steering pumps failing
Free dual control systems (the ones where you could put the brake on from the other side!)
Jaguars recent brakes not working when using cruise control
Ford focus wiring fires

I'm sure there are others which ive forgotten - maybe the prius problem too.


Anyways there no reason you can't make a nissan micra with a rubber mat and plastic head lining rather than a carpet your terrified of getting muddy and headlining your worried about tearing

 

[barnfind]

Anyways there no reason you can't make a nissan micra with a rubber mat and plastic head lining rather than a carpet your terrified of getting muddy and headlining your worried about tearing

I agree, its all do-able, its just whether there is sufficient of a market to justify it, particularly in the UK, where cars are status symbols as well as practical means of transport.

 

[malcolm]

They actually did make a stipped out Micra for some European markets and nobody bought it. Other current low cost cars are having problems selling. Not a lot of profit in them either.

Not a reason why that sort of thing wouldn't be cool though.