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Electronic Ignition

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woody

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Hi All
Has anyone fitted electronic ignition to their R4.
I was chatting to a friend, and he owns a 2cv, told me he had updated the ignition with a electronic system obtained in kit form. Told me It would do wonders for my car ( R4 GTL ) too. Although I,m a bit of a purist and would normally not put modern STUFF in my little classic, has anyone any views experience or Knowledge of Electronic Ignition!!!???
 
I use something called 123 on all my 2CVs and DSs although for the DS its a complete distributor unit but its just a small box for the CVs
I dont think they do one for the R4 though but they are superbe they behave so much more refined, smooth running and easy starting I would not think twice to adding it on the R4
 
Thanks for that chaps, any ideas of the costs Steve? the site did not show them.
 
Woody, not too sure now as I bought my last one 5 years ago. They are not overly expensive so email them or phone and they'll tell you. You can pay by card and their delivery service is very quick.
If you buy one, also fit a new set of points at the same time and the only maintenance that will be needed is to lubricate the distributor cam and check the points gap every 6000 miles. The points will last almost for ever!!!
 
In my opinion the best reason to fit electronic ignition to any contact breaker car is that you don't rely on bob weights for ignition advance, and you don't need to bother about points gap, spring tension, cam wear etc. Therefore the best systems are those that use optical/electromagnetical triggering and have mapped advance.
That's why 123 has that much success among 2Cvers. These engines, especially when running on unleaded, are rather sensitive to bob weight wear. It helps them start easily on cold mornings too (any R4 will not have that problem, though, maybe because 2 more cylinders make the difference).
I have found the standard R4 ignition system to be totally reliable, the only problems I ever had were badly pitted points due to a faulty condenser (it was last changed ages ago) and a broken moving point heel (points-triggered systems would not solve it anyway).
So I think that mapped electronic ignition systems would be OK on (pinking-sensitive) GTL engines, but unnecessary on 845s. The only reason to fit one would be if you were too lazy to check/adjust the contact points.
 
On my van F4 with 1100 engine I have that earlier mentioned hesitating flat spot and have to pull out the choke, I do have a spare distributor but would it work better with an EI
One of the above or 123 or just change the distributor
Do the 1100s need lead replacement additive the french seem to think so
 
Thanks all
I will give serious thought to adding EI to my car, but to be honest the ignition side of things seem generally OK. The exception being the occasional "pinking" but this I consider not serious. On the Question of fuel, I almost always use a lead substitute when refuelling. 1100cc engine R4 GTL. I have just tracked down all the parts to replace Plugs, distributor cap and arm, Points (Femsa Dist) I will post findings if great improvements are made to engine running etc
 
Steve - is there any reason the Boyer Bransdon kit wouldn't work on an MGA? I've just gone back to points as the luminition optical system seems to have failed, but remember how much wear they get on those engines. Understand the boyer system is a transistor allowing points to be used at low current and hence last for ever, and can be bypassed if it goes wrong.

For the Renault 4s I'm still on standard points. They seem to need adjusting only about once a year. No idea how Renault managed to make them work so well, they are no bother at all.

I have noticed differences between distributors though. Had terrible pinking until I swapped for a spare distributor on the GTL. Fine after that. I understood new Ducellier distributors were available - that might be a more straightforward option than some aftermarket ignition if the existing distributor is worn.

My long term plan is to have no aftermarket parts on any car. Without exception every aftermarket "performance" part I've ever fitted to a car has turned out to be trouble.
 
Malcolm, the Boyer would work fine on the MGA and you are correct in saying that it can be by-passed. Saying that, I've bought three of these units and fitted them in various cars over the years and never had a failure. I would fit them to any car runnning on points as the points don't burn and the car always starts first time.
They don't compensate for any wear in the mechanical advance etc. I am not familiar with the lumenition system but I do remember the name from a long time ago.

There are differences in the distributors Renault used. I think the Femsa is the worst of the bunch, but the others are well made and the Ducellier is still available new.

The ultimate distributor for our Renault 4's would be a fully electronic system. Strip the guts out of a distributor and use it just as a triggering unit. Hook it up to a 'black box' and you've got perfect timing and performance for ever!!
Boyer do these for 4 cylinder motorcycles so I reckon they could make one for the Renault 4 by fitting the triggering unit under the dist cap and making up the black box that is mapped to our engines.

I think you've been unlucky with aftermarket parts. Some are rubbish but others work well.
Aldon Automotive convert old Lucas distributors to take electronic ignition and they are really well made. They do away with the vacuum unit and fine tune the mecanical advance. Very popular with Mini owners. Maybe they can work on converting one of our distributors - the possibilities are endless!!
 
So-did any of you guys actually install the 123 in your R4 (or R5) ?? Most important..What's the verdict??
my dizzy on Roffen have some issues,and I am tempted to go for this 123,but seeing it will ruin my beer-budget I am looking for more feedback first..
They have a model that fits my 10 G 726 R5GTLmotor as it is now.

Will me replacing the intake-manifold and installing a double-barreled Weber result in the 123 no longer work as supposed or what?? -R.
 
I have just fitted the 123 system to my car but I have not had the car on the road since as it is stripped awaiting a respray.
The engine feels lively and starts well but until I can run on the road I will not know. Gary
 
You are now Officially our Kamikaze -and testpilot for the 123in4 Gary!
-if you give us the name of your man with the spray-gun we will all send him an email asking him to get your car ready-Soon....
Hope you'll keep us informed..
How much did it damage your beer-budget -and how easy was it to install and tune? -R.
 
Last edited:
Damage was severe at about £299 for the model with the advance.
It was very easy to fit,the car was in Mike Stoke garage in Burton Latimer having some welding done on the back wings and I rang him up and said there is a 123 distributor in the parcel shelf will you fit it for me Pleeeese.
For those of you living near Burton Latimer Mike runs a village garage Marlow Motors he is one of the very few restorers of the R16 and expert in that model. He has also done 17s R8s an alpine 110 , 4cvs and at least my R4.
As I am away for two months respray will not be until November so it will be a while for the test.
Gary
 
angel said:
In my opinion the best reason to fit electronic ignition to any contact breaker car is that you don't rely on bob weights for ignition advance, and you don't need to bother about points gap, spring tension, cam wear etc. Therefore the best systems are those that use optical/electromagnetical triggering and have mapped advance.
That's why 123 has that much success among 2Cvers. These engines, especially when running on unleaded, are rather sensitive to bob weight wear. It helps them start easily on cold mornings too (any R4 will not have that problem, though, maybe because 2 more cylinders make the difference).
I have found the standard R4 ignition system to be totally reliable, the only problems I ever had were badly pitted points due to a faulty condenser (it was last changed ages ago) and a broken moving point heel (points-triggered systems would not solve it anyway).
So I think that mapped electronic ignition systems would be OK on (pinking-sensitive) GTL engines, but unnecessary on 845s. The only reason to fit one would be if you were too lazy to check/adjust the contact points.
Click to expand...

Not that I'm lazy but wouldn't a 845 engine get better fuel economy when equipped with a mapped EI?
 
I can't predict for sure as I had never had an experience with a mapped ignition. I noticed some difference in "liveliness" when setting initial advance to 9 deg. BTDC but didn't make "before and after" consumption tests.
As far as I know there is no manufacturer of a user-programmed ignition that can be fitted on our cars, or am I wrong?
 
I got interested in the 123-ignition system because it would enable me to use alternative fuels like E85 and LPG without to much fiddling. I have noticed that a company in Belgium that sell 123-ignition systems insist on using a dyno to get the thing set up. The only other ignition I know people have tried with success is the ignition kit by Velleman. It's a do it yourself kit; you have to solder things together yourself and then stick it in the car. Use too much heat and you fry the components before use causing it to be as dead as a doornail.
 
Still the 123 ignition is not totally programmable, it has only ready made curves. Not sure if it is really necessary on our R4s.

Two years ago, trying to cure pinking on a 2CV, I decided to try this electronic ignition module: http://www.ignitech.cz/english/tcip/tcip.htm . It was the only programmable one I could find. I even fitted a throttle position sensor to use 3D ignition maps. It never worked correctly for a strange reason, it would cut off or give erratic timing after the car ran for 10-15 minutes, and after many emails and the unit returned for checking, we couldn't find a solution.
Anyway I still have the module so I'm tempted to try on my Jogging when I find the time.
 
I was Damn sure I would buy a 123-ignitionsyst.for Roffen but after reading Lots of posts on the 123-forum I am not sure what to do...
-If I need to tag the old distrib.around all the time due to failure and
reliablity-probelms with the 123 I am not so sure anymore.......
I hasten to add that the manufacturer seems one possible to talk
to if you have a problem with it-It says No-one has had to pay for
service/repair, I still don't get the assurance they are totally reliable.
Searched,but couldn't find anyone referring to have installed in into a
R4 -which would be most interesting,so ggcton is still our official Kamikaze-pilot on it. Hope you get it back on the test-track soon! -R.
 
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