Front O/S torsion bar adjustment. Update !

[Cyprusnoddycar]

Kevin, can I suggest you strip the other side, leaving the bottom wishbone and torsion bar in situ and undisturbed. Now you can try the offending bar in various settings until the two wishbones look to be in the same position/angle.
Remember, you do have fine adjustment if you move each end of the bar by one spline at a time. Who knows why the French conceived this design, it's anybodies guess.
Failing this Kev, how about a nice bottle of vino on the terrace, feet up, and just say
_ _ _ _ it !! Good luck my friend, I drink to your good health, hic

That's another idea. Although I was wondering if the torsion bar was weak ? I found the original factory X3 red paint lines on the front of the torsion bar, so set it up using them like in the manual, all to no avail. So I was thinking about buying a new O/S torsion bar if I can find one ? It's my 73rd Birthday tomorrow so will leave it for a while and drive my 1949 MG TC to a nice car rally and chillout ! Thanks.

 

[Cornish4]

Yes I think torsion bars can go weak over time with hard use, so you could be right. Finding a NOS one might not be so easy, but worth a try, but failing that maybe just trying a second hand one might do the trick.
Happy birthday, and enjoy your run out in the TC, a great little car. I've had several MGs over the years, but never a T type, although I did have a YA saloon back in the 70s, and before that a 37 VA, so I understand the appeal of old MGs, part of British motoring history.
All the best Bry.

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

Yes I think torsion bars can go weak over time with hard use, so you could be right. Finding a NOS one might not be so easy, but worth a try, but failing that maybe just trying a second hand one might do the trick.
Happy birthday, and enjoy your run out in the TC, a great little car. I've had several MGs over the years, but never a T type, although I did have a YA saloon back in the 70s, and before that a 37 VA, so I understand the appeal of old MGs, part of British motoring history.
All the best Bry.

Hello Bry, I had another go at setting it up using different spline positions in the wishbone this morning, but still no good. Will leave it a while and come back to it later. A new torsion bar is probably not that easy to find. Yes, MG's are great cars and I have owned many since 1971, including a YB with the University Motors Garage dealer number plate UMG. And the car still exists in Bournemouth. A 1937 VA is quite rare now. Take care Cheers Kev

 

[malcolm]

Angel's link is well worth reading through again: https://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/threads/how-to-set-front-ride-heights.5693/#post-33719

The torsion bars are tensioned even with the suspension at full droop and the factory tool for tensioning the bar is a long bar with an octagonal head that you can use to twist the rear of the torsion bar on the flats until the holes line up. If you don't have the tool you can make the job easier by removing the damper, driveshaft, upright, tie bar and leaving a bare lower suspension arm. This will let it hang down more so you need to apply less torsion on the torsion bar when fitting it.

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

Angel's link is well worth reading through again: https://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/threads/how-to-set-front-ride-heights.5693/#post-33719

The torsion bars are tensioned even with the suspension at full droop and the factory tool for tensioning the bar is a long bar with an octagonal head that you can use to twist the rear of the torsion bar on the flats until the holes line up. If you don't have the tool you can make the job easier by removing the damper, driveshaft, upright, tie bar and leaving a bare lower suspension arm. This will let it hang down more so you need to apply less torsion on the torsion bar when fitting it.

Hello Malcolm, Thanks for the useful info I will try this. I have the correct tool, and unloading/loading the torsion bar is no problem. My problem is that I can only find one position on the splines (and the original marked position) to get the X3 holes lined up ? But then the car is still sitting low. so I moved the anchor anti clockwise (O/S driver) and allowed the 10mm-13mm from the floor like in the Haynes manual, but then the holes will not line up ! So I found the original factory red lines on the wishbone end, and moved the torsion bar anti clockwise (inwards) and repositioned the anchor bar again. But the holes will still not line up ! Think I will remove the damper etc next like you have suggested next week which should make it easier. Thanks again.

 

[malcolm]

Do the holes not line up because the mounting has moved sideways? You could try loosely fitting the bolt at the bottom and then tensioning the torsion bar until the other two line up.

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

Do the holes not line up because the mounting has moved sideways? You could try loosely fitting the bolt at the bottom and then tensioning the torsion bar until the other two line up.

Okay thanks I will check that as well....I just came in from my garage and removed the damper drive shaft etc like you suggested and it makes it easier. One thing I did notice that the damper was on it's maximum travel so will refit it after adjustment of the torsion bar. I decided to fit the anchor with the X3 bolts on it's own without the torsion bar, so I could mark the carrier position is as a guide. I now have to find the correct spline on the wishbone end so that the holes line up and the ride height is correct. It's a bit of a nightmare job ! Still I like to keep busy.

 

[angel]

But then the car is still sitting low. so I moved the anchor anti clockwise (O/S driver) and allowed the 10mm-13mm from the floor like in the Haynes manual, but then the holes will not line up !

Of course they will not at this point, the bar needs tensioning (turning the anchor lever clockwise when viewing from the back), then they will line up. Are you doing the job alone or do you have an assistant?

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

The wife is operating the jack, and I am fitting the X3 bolts when they line up. Think I have the correct spline on the wishbone end now, to obtain the correct ride height. I fit the small 13mm bolt first. But then I had another problem ! the jaws have opened up on the anchor adjusting tool, so are now slipping ! So I am now welding on the flats, and will file them to get a good tight fit on the anchor. Great fun !

 

[angel]

Best practice is to fit one of the 17mm AF bolts first. You may need to insert a screwdriver in the other bolt hole and wiggle it a little to align the hole perfectly. These bolt holes need to be aligned to the chassis holes otherwise the bolts will strip. Not the easiest job, admittedly...
Renault / Facom tool was made out of chrome - vanadium and could cope with the very high torque loadings applied, despite being only 15mm thick. Still, it had a bolt across the open end to prevent the jaws from opening. I had my tool made from ordinary steel plate - like yours - but I opted for 20mm thickness and didn't have any issues during 22 years of frequent use.

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

Best practice is to fit one of the 17mm AF bolts first. You may need to insert a screwdriver in the other bolt hole and wiggle it a little to align the hole perfectly. These bolt holes need to be aligned to the chassis holes otherwise the bolts will strip. Not the easiest job, admittedly...
Renault / Facom tool was made out of chrome - vanadium and could cope with the very high torque loadings applied, despite being only 15mm thick. Still, it had a bolt across the open end to prevent the jaws from opening. I had my tool made from ordinary steel plate - like yours - but I opted for 20mm thickness and didn't have any issues during 22 years of frequent use.

I still can't obtain the correct ride height, so I am sure the torsion bar is weak ? probably due to some heavy person driving the car for 130,000 km !
I asked De Marco if he had a new or S/H O/S torsion bar, but he has no stock.

 

[angel]

The torsion bars will normally weaken, that's why they are adjustable.
130.000 kms is "barely run-in" for any R4! :-D

If other side sits constantly higher it may be a good idea setting this side to factory setting too, as a starting point. I'm not sure you wanted to hear this, though...

 

[Andy McGhee]

I still can't obtain the correct ride height, so I am sure the torsion bar is weak ? probably due to some heavy person driving the car for 130,000 km !
I asked De Marco if he had a new or S/H O/S torsion bar, but he has no stock.

There's a pair of front torsion bars here: https://www.palace-de-lancienne.com/train-avant/barres-de-torsion/
Not sure if they're the right diameter (I think 17mm ones are van bars, but it probably varied from country to country. According to Haynes, the GTL front bars are 16.5mm diameter). If you ask, I'm sure Benoît will be able to find you what you need.
Good luck!

 

[Piet]

I think when we say “weaken” we mean “settle” or deform or relax which is normal for springs and torsion bars. That changes the set or position of the torsion bar but it should not change its modulus of elasticity. In other words, you should not have to replace a torsion bar unless it cracks or suffers gross damage, you should just be able to re adjust it. Something you can’t do with coil springs.

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

There's a pair of front torsion bars here: https://www.palace-de-lancienne.com/train-avant/barres-de-torsion/
Not sure if they're the right diameter (I think 17mm ones are van bars, but it probably varied from country to country. According to Haynes, the GTL front bars are 16.5mm diameter). If you ask, I'm sure Benoît will be able to find you what you need.
Good luck!

Thanks Andy ! I will check it out. I just can't get enough lift on the front O/S with the X3 anchor holes lined up.

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi

I have some used torsion bars. I cannot remember which model they came off. If you get stuck, I could measure the length and diameter and get back to you.

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

Thought I would have another go at setting the correct ride height a few more times this morning, and this job is really doing my head in !
Because the position I require to get the correct ride height none of the bloody anchor mounting holes line up ! Even when i set the anchor in the correct position 10mm-13mm from the floor. I set the wishbone end X1 spline anti clockwise and the ride height is too low, so I set the torsion bar X2 splines anti clockwise (like in the photo) to get the correct ride height and none of the bloody anchor bolt holes line up ! aaaaahhhh !!

 

[JdeW]

Strange the anchor bolts don't line up and strange you can't change the height, hundred of thousand of people (maybe millions) change the height during the last 6 decades
Maybe there's something structural wrong as torsion bars are used in more brands of cars even Porsche use them.
I assume you first unthighten the bolts of both the (upper and lower) wishbones when disassemble everything. Only when everything is on and the car is just standing on the ground can you tighten the wishbones.
When you don't do that, the (new) height doesn't show up and you can (re)new the rubbers of the wishbones in a few weeks...

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

Strange the anchor bolts don't line up and strange you can't change the height, hundred of thousand of people (maybe millions) change the height during the last 6 decades
Maybe there's something structural wrong as torsion bars are used in more brands of cars even Porsche use them.
I assume you first unthighten the bolts of both the (upper and lower) wishbones when disassemble everything. Only when everything is on and the car is just standing on the ground can you tighten the wishbones.
When you don't do that, the (new) height doesn't show up and you can (re)new the rubbers of the wishbones in a few weeks...

Yeah, this job is driving me absolutely crazy ! So there must be something wrong somewhere. I still think the torsion bar is weak, although after only 130,000 kms it should be okay...unless some really heavy guy drove the car ? The car was 3cm down on the driver side. I have just ordered another used Right-hand 17mm diameter torsion bar/anchor from France which was only €25 (Plus postage), and is no problem coming to Cyprus (EU). Because if I play around with it much longer the men in white coats will come and take me off to the mental hospital ! Thanks !

 

[JdeW]

At 130,000 km the R4 has just been run in. I purchased my R4 at 48.000 km and drove over 448.000 km (90.000 km average per year) and traded it in at almost 500.000 km and nothing ever was wrong with the torsion bars. Even the engine reached 170 km/h easily in those days with the right fuel, (not the terrible e10 rubish nowadays).
I assume you ordered the torsion bat at palae de lancienne from Huart Benoît that's a really good nice person from where I ordered some parts as well.
Good luck with the project.