Gearbox removal

[kevinandkate]

I am on with the delightful task of changing the clutch and have come to the point where the tubular crossmember needs to be removed. The first bolt sheared off which in itself is not a problem but the remains of the bolt cannot be abstracted as the end of the torsion bar is in the way. This appears to be the case with the remaining 3 bolts which are equally tight and likely to shear off. Even if they hadn't sheared I would be unable to remove the crossmemebr as the bolts would still be in situ-------- Help!!!. Any advice would be appreciated, at the moment it would seem the whole hub assembly and tortion bar will have to come off which I do not fancy doing if there is an alternative.

 

[Steve Hennessey]

Oh dear - firstly I would suggest removing the engine and gearbox in one lump if you haven't gone past the point of no return - I have found it easier splitting the engine and gearbox and replacing the clutch on the ground.
If all the crossmember bolts are seized then the easiest way to remove the 'blind' ones is to detach the top ball joint to take the tension off the torsion bar and to ease the bracket away from the chassis enough to remove the broken bolt.

 

[kevinandkate]

Thanks Steve

I've just been to borow a block and tackle from a friend as I had also come to the conclusion the engine and box out is an easier option. Only one of the bolts sheared so I am going to leave the crossmember in situ with a bolt missing. Now I just need to make some form of tool to compress the driveshafts so they can be removed, its the later type of driveshafts that are mentioned in Haynes as being needed......and it all looked so simple before I started, ho hum.

 

[The_Blacksmith]

You could take the gearbox out through the top instead of dropping it.
That involves taking off the bonnet and undoing the front engine mount to create a bit of room to move around a bit. I take it the driveshafts are of the vehicle.
As it is a R4 TL there shouldn't be anything in the way like say a radiator. The gear shift should be disconnected, though. There is a pin keeping the gear shift lever connected to a lever sticking out of the gearbox. You can wiggle it out of it's hole fairly easily. To get the gearbox out you'll probably need to disconnect a few wires an then wiggle the gearbox off the engine. If you have a trolley jack use that to support the gearbox so it doesn't fall or damage anything important. Once it's free you can winch it up.

 

[Bobble]

I always prefer taking the whole unit out in one, as said before you need to take off the bonnet, split the gear linkage,remove gearbox mounting, remove driveshafts,radiator and steering rack, sounds a lot of work but it's not realy difficult then just hoist it ou, good luck.

 

[pepper]

You don't normally need to compress the drive shafts other than by hand as you pull the gear box and engine out! They normally stay out out of the way quite easily.

 

[kevinandkate]

Thanks everyone for the replies, Pepper, its the later type and according the the Haynes bible which is less than helpful, it shows a tool to compress the driveshaft before being able to remove it, I had wondered whether it would be possible to do it by hand and then give it all a wiggle which would be much easier, tomorrow will reveal the reality of it all when I have figured out the weird lifting gear I have borrowed which involves a heavy duplex chain like a timing chain and a lever, it all weighs a huge ammount but should be more than up for the job, clever people French farmers.Bobble all the items mentioned were already off as I was looking at the wrong page in the manual, radiator needed to be off and rack was easy enough, just need to replace a snapped captive bolt in the bonnet hinge now.

 

[pepper]

Mines a 1984 GTL and I just removed the one balljoint (by the bolts rather than splitting the rubbers) and the steering rack joint has already been removed as you have to take the steering rack off.

The drive shaft then just pulls out and clears everything nicely.

 

[Bobble]

I never really look at the manuals unless there's something i can't see or understand how it comes apart, but Pepper has just put the finishing touch about the drive shaft removal.
good luck tomorrow.

 

[paulandpat]

Having started to dismantle our 85 GTL saloon, its now got all the front wings off, doors etc, I can't help feeling that Renault missed a trick by welding on the front crossmember that holds on the bonnet etc. How much easier it would make gearbox removal / clutch changing if it simply unbolted.
Once spent a whole weekend (2 long days) changing the clutch on a GTL, a bit different than the 2Cv we had earlier, the boss arrives home one evening reporting that 'its smoking a bit', after a leisurely meal, a couple of hours in the garage and the standby replacement engine is fitted, running and ready to go to work the day after. Not so easy with a 4 I think!

 

[kevinandkate]

Well the engine and gearbox are out and its begining to be one of those "why the hell did I start this" types of jobs. Firstly a captive stud in the bonnet hinge sheared, then a bolt in the tubular crossmember sheared then the top ball joint only came half off before the ball spun in the socket and would not go one way or the other. Cant unbolt the ball joint as its original equipment and riveted, anyway with the use of various bits of equipment I finally got them off and then realised I had split one of the drive shaft gaiters which had been perfectly fine before hand. Then the antiquated block and tackle I had borrowed seized in the partly raised position and the engine and box dangled in mid air dripping gear oil all over the place. I was fortunate when I found both the filler and drain plugs were free to undo which I understand has not been the case for some people. I now need a wheel end gaiter which is the 79 mm and 24 mm type, the only place I have found it is Der Franzose and although the gaiter is ok at 8.99 euros the postage of 17 euros was taking the michael a bit. Are they available anywhere else that anyone knows about?

 

[paulandpat]

You could try looking on www.oscaro.com or www.yakarouler.fr or any of the parts suppliers that tend to come up at the bottom of the lists when you look for stuff on Ebay France. Have used Yakarouler for filters and things, they were competitive on price and very efficient.

 

[pepper]

First of all well done for getting it all out. The drive shaft gaiters are pretty standard and you can buy them from your local car accessory shop (they do have them in France too)

 

[kevinandkate]

Thanks Pepper will have to do a bit of legwork. Paulandpat neither Oscaro or Yakrouler have the soufflets just full driveshafts so will have to look further afield or even renault dealers.

 

[paulandpat]

If the usual suspects like Roady or Feu Vert can't help have a look in the phone book for the local AD Machu, they are factors the garages use, but are quite happy to sell to diy people.

 

[kevinandkate]

Drive shafts

PaulandPat no luck with any of them some stock different sizes but not mine. Having checked the joints in a bit more detail I have decided to replace both drive shafts, its cost around 120 euros delivered but its such a swine of a job to do I thought I might as well get it over and done with at the same time. New oil seals arrived today to replace the ones where the drive shaft enters the diff, one side was leaking quite badly and they were quite cheap to buy. Never done it before but doesnt look too complicated.
Photos are of Fifi sans power plant, my made up clutch aligner, remodeled lots of times over the years and Fifis under bonnet area sound but grubby. note the string block and tackle I ended up using, effective but makes your hands sting. Didn't realise there was no brake till the lump was up in the air.

 

[Steve Hennessey]

When replacing the oil seals don't forget to replace the 'o' rings on the bearing retainer or oil will seep past the threads. Also make sure that the bearing retainers are screwed in exactly the same number of turns each side and in exactly the same place before removal. I think Haynes may mention this also.
Before replacing the gearbox lubricate the clutch operating rod liberally with grease. Use WD40 to remove as much dirt as possible from the rod by working it in and out and then if you can dribble some runny copper grease in then it won't give you any trouble in the future.
Do replace the release bearing (sorry - just checking) and smear a trace of copper grease on the input shaft splines after you have thoroughly cleaned and derusted it.

If you want to make a habit of replacing clutches then buy a cheap engine crane - your description of the engine hoist worries me!!

 

[kevinandkate]

Thanks Steve, wasn't aware of the o rings so will have to source some from somewhere.Haynes, for a change, is fairly clear about removal of the bearing retainers for a change. I bought the whole set for the clutch which is something I have always done, doesnt make sense to me to go to all this work and only mend part of the problem. I will grease the operating rod well as that was part of the problem, the other part was loss of springiness in the clutch fingers causing the clutch to slip, probably as it was parked for over 5 years before we bought it. The engine hoist is fine, its a string pulley system rated up to 1 ton if you have steel hands. It has a system of 4 pulleys at each end so the gearing isnt too bad, another 2 at each end and a brake would have been better. As to making a habit of changing clutches.....never again particularly in the coldest winter for 30 years here....allthough a friends Traction Avant has a gearbox problem so you may be right.

 

[angel]

I still find it much easier to change clutches by removing the gearbox only. It is a lot easier to manoeuvre the gearbox by using Blacksmith's technique (removal from above the chassis crossmember). This also eliminates the need to remove the tubular crossmember, but makes it necessary to remove other components, such as the radiator (not necessary when working from underneath).

On Valeo clutches, you get a plastic disc centralizer as a gift, so you don't need to make one :-) . Today I discovered that, by shortening it, it works perfectly on a Mercedes E 200 clutch, too...

 

[jon_r4]

I did it recently as Angel suggest.

A few pics