New carburetor

[Alfonso]

Hi there!

I got a Renault 4tl (1985) with 200,000km on the clock in Morocco and I am now in the process of preparing it for daily use (or even a possible go at 4l trophy since I'm still a student hehe). The main reason why I bought it was to learn some mechanics since I knew close to nothing (and I still do ). The thing is it has been messed about with and fixed in rather ingenious but cheap ways which I am now trying to amend. The car was running smoothly (I did a 2500km trip and it went well) but at some point it started stalling when cold increasingly often (and it's not even that cold here in Malaga) and even when warming it up for around 10 minutes it would still not run so well. Since there is no fuel filter yet, I figured that I should perhaps check the carburetor (clean it, replace gaskets) and see if the problem is solved. I had to take out the carburetor anyway to fix an air leak in the manifold and, since the Haynes manual says it should be cleaned every 20,000km, I thought it wouldn't be such a bad idea to take a look into it. After some confusion, it turns out that it has a Solex 32 seia, which would belong to R5, 6 and 7. I took the carburetor to the local mechanic to find out why two bottom holes and pipes that did not appear on the manual (which I didn't know the function of) were completely clogged and his hypothesis was that they were purposedly blocked (which makes sense after finding out it doesn't belong in this car). All in all, my intentions now are to replace it with a proper R4 carburetor. The most common one seems to be the Zenith 28IF, but I am not completely sure if it will fit in my car (I have read that some carburetors don't fit in all versions). I have checked the plate numbers but I can't manage to understand them. Here you can see the three plates I found (oval, diamond -which in R4s manufactured in Spain I presume are rectangular- and engine number). Apologies for the massive text and I would really appreciate it if anyone could give me a helping hand on finding out if the 28IF fits and, if so, where to find an original one or a decent quality replica. Many thanks!!

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi Alfonso

The Zenith 281F (Carburettor Type: V05082) is a good fit for Oval Plate Number: 1128. The carburettor type number is stamped on the body of the carburettor.

Best Wishes

 

[Andy McGhee]

The Solex carbs are excellent - they were fitted to the earliest French/UK R1128s. There's information about them in the Haynes manual that covers models up to 85, and in the French Revue Technique. However, almost all R1128 ('GTL' in the UK) owners here will have engines that have the Zenith 28IF.
I don't know which engines were fitted to FASA R1128s; your engine (850-98) may not be the original. This page shows that similar engines were fitted to R5/6/7 models:

Motor Cléon-Fonte - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

It might be worth checking the Spanish forum to see whether it could be the original:

Forums - Club Clásicos Renault 3,4,5,6 y 7 (clasicosrenault34567.es)

The blocked pipes you refer to are probably the ones that go from the water pump to the heated base of the carb:



Anyway, there's a good chance that the carb you have is the right one for the engine. A Zenith 28IF won't fit the manifold your car has - you'd have to find a replacement. I'm sure you can improve the car's running without changing the carb. Good luck!

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi Alfonso

Further to my last reply. I can confirm engine number 850-98 is a Renault 7 engine number, manufactured between 1974-1984 in Valladolid, Spain. It should be a 1037cc unit according to the data. Therefore, your R4 has had an engine transplant at some point in its life. I imagine the Solex carb is the original fitted to the R7. As Andy above stated, tinkering with the carburettor you have might get it to run more smoothly. Alternatively, if you are set on changing the carburettor, there should be a carburettor/manifold combo from an R4/R5 which should do the job.

Best Wishes

 

[Alfonso]

Many thanks jcarruthers2 and Andy! I have to say that makes a tad more sense. I was thinking that if the carburetor wasn't the right one for the engine how come there was a pipe coming from the water pump to the base of the carb (it would've been too good of a mechanic job for what this car has me used to). I think I will try find a solex 32 replacement with functioning holes since I reckon it'd run better if everything works the way it's supposed to (the local mechanic told me to forget about reopening the holes). However, since the pipe that takes the water from the carb to somewhere else is blocked at the end (with a rusty spark plug ) , I do not know where it is supposed to take the water to. Where do you guys do your research on this sort of stuff? Would I be better off getting the Haynes manual for the R7?

Thanks again! Here you have a picture of the peculiar pipe.

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi Alfonso

That hose might go to the waterpump. It is often the case that the same type of waterpump was fitted to several models. New waterpumps are supplied with brass threaded tubular connectors for the attachment of additional hoses and blanking plugs for holes in the watepump which are not required for your particular set up. You then fit the connectors/blanking plugs as required for your model. It is possible someone has blanked off one of the threaded holes in the waterpump which accommodates this hose (hopefully with the correct type of threaded blanking plug). If it has been blanked off correctly you might be able to remove the blanking plug (if not seized up, spray lots of WD40 before attempting to remove!) The blanking plugs usually have an Alan Key recess for tightening/releasing. Locate the correct type of threaded tubular connector, fit to the waterpump and then you will have a point of attachment for your hose. Inspect your waterpump for blanking plugs to see where the hose might have once been connected to. Alternatively, post pictures of your waterpump from as many angles as possible on the forum and we will see if we can spot where the hose should go. If you can locate a manual for an R7 that would be really useful for this repair and for you to carry out all manner of repairs in the future. I tend to do my Renault 4 data research online.

As an afterthought, it could be that the carburetor is not in fact the original and the hose was blanked off because the waterpump has not got an oriface to accommodate the hose.

Best Wishes

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi again Alfonso

Due to the lockdown, I have time on my hands to do research! I have found two types of carburettor which were fitted to the Renault 7:

1) The Zenith 321F7 (V10-415) This one has holes at the base for coolant hoses.

2) The Zenith 281F (Solex) Might this mean Zenith type under licence to Solex?

There might be other options for the R7 but these are the only two I have found listed.

Quite interestingly, the Solex 32 SEIA is coming up as a carburettor as fitted to the Renault 12 and was also in all likelihood fitted to other models too.

It could well be that you have an R7 engine but the carburettor is in fact from another model.

This may narrow down your research as to sourcing the correct carburettor.


Best Wishes

 

[Andy McGhee]

This should help - the R5 (and presumably 7) set-up was similar. It looks as though the base of your carb has been through hard times - one of the pipes is missing!
This is what it should look like:




This should give you a better idea of the water pump connections:

Water pump renault 5 TL GTL LS TS Alpine 1000 1300 1400 Water Pump wasserpumpen | eBay

And this video has some invaluable info about R7s, including pages from manuals/reviews:

Renault Siete (2/2)- En detalle - YouTube (you might just catch a glimpse of the carb to water pump pipes at 5.40ish!)

You should be able to find a set of the carb to pump hoses fairly easily in Spain - I got a set for an early R5 from a Spanish seller.

These might be handy too:

Renault 7 / Siete, 1974-1982 | Gasolina Súper | Renault (gasolinasuper.es)

MIL ANUNCIOS.COM - Solex seia. Recambios clasicos solex seia. Venta de recambios de coches clasicos de segunda mano solex seia. recambios de coches clasicos de ocasión a los mejores precios.

 

[harbourseal]

Hi there Alfonso,
On both my R4 I have a Solex SEIA carburetor.
I’m very happy with both of them.
Just clean up your carburetor and leave it on. They are very trustworthy carburetors.
Putting on a Zenith 28 will set you back in power about 10hp.
You won’t be needing the extra carburetor base heating in Spain.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Don't forget set if you're changing from 32mm to 28mm carburettors you will need a different manifold as the fixing spacings are different stick with 32mm as this was a easy power upgrades for people with 28 mm setup

 

[Alfonso]

Many thanks again, I didn't expect you to be so helpful! I think I will just clean it in a disinfectant called Zotal that I have read in forums works wonders and replace gaskets. However I will start looking for a new solex seia with working water holes and in better conditions (as Andy said, it does look like life hasn't been soft on it). Furthermore, I would not appreciate a downgrade in power.

 

[Alfonso]

Hi again Alfonso

Due to the lockdown, I have time on my hands to do research! I have found two types of carburettor which were fitted to the Renault 7:

1) The Zenith 321F7 (V10-415) This one has holes at the base for coolant hoses.

2) The Zenith 281F (Solex) Might this mean Zenith type under licence to Solex?

There might be other options for the R7 but these are the only two I have found listed.

Quite interestingly, the Solex 32 SEIA is coming up as a carburettor as fitted to the Renault 12 and was also in all likelihood fitted to other models too.

It could well be that you have an R7 engine but the carburettor is in fact from another model.

This may narrow down your research as to sourcing the correct carburettor.


Best Wishes

I find the previous owners not being too concerned about keeping it original!

Really appreciate the info, whereabouts do you find that sort of stuff?

 

[harbourseal]

You won’t have to look for a working Solex SEIA
the only thing you need is the carburetor foot with two water pipes and if possible a working butterfly.

 

[Alfonso]

You won’t have to look for a working Solex SEIA
the only thing you need is the carburetor foot with two water pipes and if possible a working butterfly.

And isn't that hard to find? I haven't seen anyone yet selling a part of a carburetor, they seem to want to sell it as a whole, but thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Alfonso]

Now I moved on to the manifold, which has a considerable leak. I unscrewed all the nuts but I realised it won't come out unless I take out what seems to be the steering shaft. Do you know the best way to do it? I'm struggling to unscrew the screws at the end of the shaft (picture) due to rust. I've applied wd40 a couple times and I'm waiting now to see if they loosen up. Do I need to take out all the plastic panels around the steering wheel too and then take the steering column apart or is there an easier way? Many thanks!

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi Alfonso

There is an easier way to get the manifold clear of the steering column. Jack up the car, place on stands, disconnect the engine mounting on that side ( just the 13mm spanner size nut which holds it in place). Re-use the jack with a suitable block of wood for support and position on a solid section of the engine block/where gearbox meets engine block but direct towards the side you are working on. Jack up the engine slightly on that side to the point where you have enough clearance from the steering column to remove the manifold. If there is a leak to the manifold/manifold gasket split, this could well be connected to your carburation issues you mentioned in your first post.

 

[Alfonso]

Thanks a lot jcarruthers2 for the quick reply! I will give that a try later on today and tell you how it went

 

[Alfonso]

Well I lifted the car and undid what I think is the nut holding the engine on that side (not without trouble) but the engine support won't come out of the stud bolt so I can't jack up the engine block. I noticed there is a hidden nut at the end of the support which I could also unscrew but I want to ask here first, I don't want to end up with the engine on the floor
Here is a picture of the nut I took out and following the arrow is the one I can take out.
I hope I explained myself well enough and thank you in advance!

 

[harbourseal]

Have you tried to undo the steering rod from the steering rack? Then the steering rod goes sideways to the inner wing. And you are able to take the manifold off the engine

 

[Alfonso]

Have you tried to undo the steering rod from the steering rack? Then the steering rod goes sideways to the inner wing. And you are able to take the manifold off the engine

Hi Harbourseal
You mean undo the nuts and bolts in the picture I posted yesterday?