R4 model details

[chudson]

I don'w write much here in the forum, mainly reading, but now i need some help restoring my beauty 1964 renault 4. I bought it very cheap and got one and a half of other r4s in parts but over the years my car has stopped looking like a mk1 model and now it's more like a 80's . At the beginning i thought the body has been changed completly but the engine bay looks right for the 64 model. The batery is in the place, wheel spanner too. The rest was unfortunately modernised and I need much help, photos and info to get it right again. ( I have most of the parts but need pictures and info about major details. I know there are some of you here "r4's walking ecyclopedias " So I much appreciate your help

1. I would appreciate a good quality picture of side indicators ( need to buy someting similar because I have tow and they're required in Poland then- can't find orginals in decent price )

2. I have the second type dashboard ( black plastic ) and I was wondering if the heater panel should differ from the later one ?

3. How did the screen washer tank look like at that time ( was it glass like the cooler tank and brake fluid tank )

4. Were the love handels mounted in early models ?( with narrow chrome grille ) were they accesory ?

5. What bumpers were in what years. I have 1970's chrome bumpers. It would be easy to fabricate the pipe type bumpers though

6. Did all the models have badges R-E-N-A-U-L-T 4 on front wing and chrome linings along the both sides ?

7. When did the heated rear screen come into production ?

8. In what models should the exhaust pipe end by the left rear wheel ?

9. How should the metal clap (closing air to heater ) under windshield be mounted coz i need to replace the plastic one with orginal and was wondering about ways to attach it.

9. Did the early models have front seat belts ? And did all early models have bench in front instead of two single seats ?

10. What are the dimmensions of old type radiator - don't have one so I'm thinking about similar that would fit. ( I don't want later type with electric fan )
11. Is it possible to start engine with a crank handle on 4 speed gearbox by modifying it a bit ?

12. The braking system in my car has been modified ( umbrella handle operates on rear wheels and i'm not going to change that as I have discs at front and no parts to change it) but it is dammageg and will be replaced. Was the orginal system one circut or was it two separate lines front and rear as in newer types.

13. Should my car have brake reducing valve ( when the car is loaded ) at the rear or was it introduced in later models only ??

That's all I can think of right now. Thanks to all contributing !!!

 

[jonigel]

Hello
If your car is 64 it should not have disc brakes ,if it has been converted make sure the top and bottom w/bones have been changed as the steering geometry is completly different,so it should have dual circuit brakes,the 64 m/cylinder will not be very good with discs! and they all have brake reducing valves.The early 4 speed will start with the handle but 64 would have had 3 speed. No seatbelts as standard and separate tubular front seats ,no repeater indiators on wings,the little lights are parking lights only.
Exhaust ends at rear wheel,heater panel is slightly different and it is 6 volts.
hope that helps

 

[chudson]

Thanks a lot !! Every contribution helps



I'll leave the brake discs at front unless i find the parts in the boxes i got with te car.

I know it should have 3 gears gerbox but I've got two 4 gears geartboxes and don't want to look for another.

The wishbones are the same on both sides but can't say if the top and bottom are from the same type ( how to recognize them ???? ) I know the rear suspension is the newer type.

I've got a brand new renault one cicrut braking master cylinder ( not sure if it's from R4 but should fit )and I'm going to use it at first ( if it's too weak I'll replace it with stronger )

I don't want it to be 6volt car coz it brings lots of problems. Though i have some 6v components like wiper motor I think i'll pass.

Well thought the side laps were indicators ( in poland old cars are allowed to have front indicators white and rear red so the would meet that standard ) I want to leave the tow as it is protection against drivers who forgot about braking gazing at my R4 in front of them and without side indicators police may give me ticket and forbid using car before I "repair" it.

I need to find the brake reducing valve or a repair kit for it. Otherwise I would have to remove it completly ( not all cars had them - my escort 1975 doesn't have one while models with bigger engines had them )

 

[Geoff in the Gully]

Hi
The early wishbones have a hole in them that the later ones don't - see picture.
Also the rear brake limiting valve on the early models wasn't 'load sensing'. There was no spring-lever type attachment as there are in later models.

 

[chudson]

I am not sure ( and I'm not going to garage coz it's minus 15 celsius degrees ) but I think mine don't jave those holes. If so I will be leaving them the way they are. I need the car to be 90% orginal because of legal possibility to register it as a historical vehicle but specialists who write certificates that the car meets standards and can be historical car ( different reg. plates, no MOT every year and ability to buy insurance for short periods only ) don't check detail that are under the car so badly. No one will notice newer suspension.

The things that I am worried about is Alternator instead of dynamo , tubular front seats ( Maybe I could weld new ones ) , need old type radiator , I need to find old type ignition switch and cable operated starter. Chrome hub caps would be great too. But first I need to look through the boxes I have maybe I'll find some on those.

 

[Steve Hennessey]

Also the rear brake limiting valve on the early models wasn't 'load sensing'. There was no spring-lever type attachment as there are in later models.

If this is the case then it's possible to use a limiting valve from the early Minis as these are still available. For the later dual circuit cars the bulkhead mounted Mini limiting valve may work. Do R4's need to have a 'load sensing' valve? I doubt it but it's a subject worthy of debate.

As it's becoming more difficult to find these valves for the earlier models then readily available alternatives could be the answer.

 

[chudson]

I'll take a closer look on the mini valve. Thanks


I doubt it needs any valve in the rear braking system. The car will be driven unloaded 99% of the time.

What's the difference in old type and new type ( load sensing ) mechanism >?

Is the load sensing connetced to rear suspension arm by a spring ( and movement of the arm turns it on/off ) and the previous model without the spring is activated by changing the angle of the car when loaded ( a small metal ball inside starts blocking fluid flow at the right angle ) ??

 

[Steve Hennessey]

I'll take a closer look on the mini valve. Thanks
I doubt it needs any valve in the rear braking system. The car will be driven unloaded 99% of the time.

You will need a limiter valve as it checks the brake imbalance between the front and rear wheels. The single circuit early models used a non adjustable valve as Geoff has already stated.

My answer to limiter issue really need some testing out but I am confident that it will work.

 

[angel]

1. Typical 61 to '71 ones are these: http://cgi.ebay.fr/clignotant-d-ail...91?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item43aceb4747
There were various other types depending on country of export.

2.The heater duct panel is different on early models (shape and coloured grey).

3. The windscreen washer tank was always white plastic. It came in three or four versions / manufactures depending on supplier.

4. There are photos of poor road / special versions with the "love handles" and the 63-67 bumpers. They look of different shape than the later ones. They must be very hard to find nowadays...

5. 1964 cars should not have the tube bumpers but the second model, flat sheet steel. They turn up on Ebay occasionally.

6.Chrome trim was standard on all "4L" versions. Front right wing badge was fitted between 1966 and 1973.

7.1976, as soon as the R4 received an alternator.

8.This is the case on almost all "small engined" R4s, with underwing silencer, except for some markets like Great Britain, Sweden or Switzerland which had a modified tailpipe to exit under the rear bumper.

9. R4s from '64 onwards had threads for seat belt fitting, but they generally became standard in the late 60s-early 70s, again depending on country of destination.
Starting from this year, too, was the option of separate front seats (or the option of bench seat). This was not standard ,the bench seat continued until the mid 80s, it really depended on country of destination and equipment level.

10. The correct radiator is the one that goes over the steering rack. Must measure my own if you need exact dimensions. I have the later core dimensions (358mm width, 252mm height, 32mm thickness). Earlier ones had the same height but were narrower (about 300mm) and may also have different, wider header tank.

I hope I covered you!

 

[chudson]

Thanks Angel, that helped me a lot.

I've got the newer type radiator ( with electric fan ) But i'm looking for something that would fit above steering rack and hold gear know mechanism.


I've got atleast one love handle somewhere in the pile of parts. But it isn't chromed and it's rusted. Wonder what type is it.

I think I'll mount later type chrome bumpers that i have and wait for the right ones on ebay ;D