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Sick R4 1108cc Engine

J

JamesT

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All, can you help?! I've got about a month to remedy the following symptoms exhibited by my R4 before heading off to Banjul on a charity expedition.

Symptoms:

1. Water/Oil mixture exiting exhaust.
2. Water/Oil mixture seeping onto front half of engine block, below the head gasket level.
3. Significant loss of water from cooling system.

Attempted fix to date has included replacing the head gasket (twice) which has seen no improvement.

On splitting the cylinder head/block we observed that one of the cylinder wet liners was proud compared to the other three and this one also has some movement whereas the others are firmly seated.

Reading a few web sites it seems that a bottom up strip and replacement of the cylinder liners may be required.

Is that your advice?

Has anyone got a better idea?

Has anyone got a donor engine?

All help much appreciated!

James
 
Hi James,
It definately sounds like one of your liner seals is gone. I would imagine a lot of water in the oil as a result of this and not so much in the exhaust. I am suspecting the oil in the exhaust is coming from the cylinder head seal. This seal will never work right if the liner is moving around.

Replacement of the liner is not as difficult as you might think. My experence is on the 847cc engine but as far as I know the 1108cc engine is the same method.

Remove the cylinder head, the loose liner and its piston, you will have to remove the sump for this. Inspect the liner and the mating face in the block for sighns of damage. If everything looks ok remove all traces of the old seal from both parts. Use a plastic implement for this, screwdrivers or anything metal will scratch the surface and the new seal may not work.

It is then a matter of fitting the new seal, refitting the liner and piston. Do not fully push the liner down til the piston is fully fitted to the crankshaft. When this is done push the liner into the correct position. It is useful to make a simple tool here to keep the liner in position while you prepare the head and block for fitting of new gasget and reassembly.

This tool is simply a piece of flat metal which has holes drilled at the position of the cylinder head bolts. This piece is then placed across the liner in position and bolted down using the cylinder head bolts. This will stop the liner moving if the engine is turned. Actually this tool should be made for each liner to stop them coming loose while the cylinder head is being fitted.

I hope you can follow my tips. And it helps you.
Let us know how you get on
ailbek
 
Wow, thanks for the swift advice, Ailbek!

I'll let you know how I get on with the liner change.

Has anyone got a reliable source of spare components, such as cylinder liner seals?

James
 
That is going to be your biggest problem. When I did one it was 20 years ago so parts were redily available.
Second hand seals are going to be no good. The only place is to try and find a renault dealer who still stocks renault 4 parts. There is still a few around.
ailbek
 
Liner base seals are always supplied in the engine gasket set, which you will need anyway.

What Ailbe didn't mention was that, after cleaning the block and liner, you should measure the liner protrusion above the block face and adjust it to the figure given in the manual. You will notice that the liner paper seals are colour coded red, blue and green, and this corresponds to three different thicknesses used, to adjust their protrusion accurately.

As the liners don't dislodge by themselves, it may had happened when you removed the head. It's better then to reseal all four of them, for your peace of mind.
 
Thanks Angel.

I'm hoping that the liner that's proud was not my doing as can't see anything else that would cause the original gasket issues. We'll see!

When I've ordered gaskets before (twice), I've used ebay and it's just been the head gasket I receive... will have to see what happens with a motor factor...

James
 
Has anyone found the knack for removing the sump with engine still in car. Having removed anti roll bar and worked the sump loose I now can't get the thing out past the chassis.

James (frustrated) of Bristol.
 
Yes, it's an awful job on both the 845 and the 1108 engines. You must undo the engine mounting nuts and lift the whole engine about 30mm. I then used wooden blocks between the mountings and the chassis.

The even trickier part is to put the sump back on, and get a good seal from the four piece gasket, especially at the rear part. I have decided that I will never do it with the engine on the car again, it is better to remove the complete assembly than replacing the sump two or three times just because rear gasket part was dislocated on sump refitting :-(
 
The sump is off!! Didn't need as much as 30mm as it turned out, loosened the transmission bolts (4off) and removed the engine mount bolts (2off), then jacked up slowly on the flywheel housing. That way the engine pivoted and gave enough extra clearance to allow the sump to fall away.

I've now whipped the troublesome cylinder liner and piston out revealing the now disintegrated ring/gasket at its base. The whole thing could benefit from a scour and re-seating which is the plan.

So, progress is being made! Now I just have to find someone to sell me a gasket set as what I thought I'd ordered from 'eurocarparts' ended up to be simply the Head Gasket (which I'll need anyway).

Thanks to all advice so far!

James
 
So, have replaced the cylinder liner with new seals at base, and have everything back as was up to the cylinder head.

I'm now slightly stumped as to why, when I rotate the main pulley (that normally allows me to turn the engine) neither the distributor rotor spins or the valves rock... What link could be missing?

Confused.
:confused:
 
reading back what you have been up to i am afraid you have snapped the end of the camshaft off !!!!!!
by slackening the bell housing bolts and then jacking block up the camshaft was then tight against hole through gearbox
not good news :(
engine out time now :eek:
 
Flush to 4 thou above the block face. Clean up the liner seats in the block, drop the liners in and look/measure their depth's the fit the seals accordingly.

If you or anyone else gets stuck for engine gaskets i can still get AE Payen ones from work (cambridge Rebores)
 
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