Andy Sherlock
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Does any one know where I can get a stainless exhaust for my 1986 R4GTL?
Is there any where I can buy 'off the shelf?
Is there any where I can buy 'off the shelf?
- Thread starter Andy Sherlock
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Steve Hennessey
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Andy Sherlock
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Thanks Steve
I'll look into that,
I'll also post up what I do actually find for the car. It may be useful for others.
Regards.
I'll look into that,
I'll also post up what I do actually find for the car. It may be useful for others.
Regards.
reidalpine
Enthusiast
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Hi andy! back home from Loheac...
WHY do you want a stainless-steel system at all??
Yes-they do not rust (much) Exept where welded ie clamps/fittings
problem is they are SO hard they will crack and break due to micro-
vibrations and movement..
usually guarantee don't cover such breaks/cracs as they are not rusted but cracked...
My adwice? Stay OFF them all together.
Mildsteel are better in ALL ways easy to get,cheap,and when finally rusted through-you ought to change pipes/pot anyways as they tend to soot-up and lessen the exhaust-flow..
WHY do you want a stainless-steel system at all??
Yes-they do not rust (much) Exept where welded ie clamps/fittings
problem is they are SO hard they will crack and break due to micro-
vibrations and movement..
usually guarantee don't cover such breaks/cracs as they are not rusted but cracked...
My adwice? Stay OFF them all together.
Mildsteel are better in ALL ways easy to get,cheap,and when finally rusted through-you ought to change pipes/pot anyways as they tend to soot-up and lessen the exhaust-flow..
Andy Sherlock
Enthusiast
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Stainles steel exhaust.
Many thanks for your comments regarding the stainless steel exhaust.
Indeed there are advantages and disadvantages to both mild steel exhausts and stainless steel exhausts.
For a car that is used infrequently, condensation within the exhaust can be a problem. Mild steel exhausts will corrode from the inside when they are wet with condensation and damp exhaust soot, and an apparently new looking exhaust can, and will, rot from the inside on a car that has done relatively few miles. This does not happen with a stainless steel exhaust.
Cracks may occur when a stainless steel (or mild steel) exhaust is over clamped to the bodywork, i.e. the exhaust mounts are insufficient to provide damping to the vibrating exhaust against the fixed bodywork of the car. This results in the weaker of the two (the exhaust) being stressed with each vibration, in turn resulting in work hardening and cracking of the exhaust.
The continuing heating and cooling of an exhaust can also cause thermal stressing within the metal of an exhaust, which in turn can cause the metal to crack without the assistance of any vibrations. This may be a little more so for a stainless steel exhaust, which is a slightly harder metal.
However, a stainless steel exhaust that is properly fabricated and welded should not crack when supported correctly on the car.
Welds on a stainless steel exhaust will rust depending on the quality of the weld filler, a stainless steel exhaust welded with mild steel filler will rust at the weld. A weld made with good quality stainless steel filler with no impurities (i.e. mild steel) should not rust.
Mild steel exhausts are not worth repairing, they usually require repairing when they are rotten. Stainless steel exhausts can be repaired at any time, they do not rot and good metal is always available for the basis of a repair. A simple crack can be repaired with a small section of new pipe and good quality weld filler.
Regarding the sooting up. A mild steel exhaust will soot up far more quickly than a stainless steel exhaust, this is because the corrosion on the mild steel exhaust provides a good key for the soot to adhere to. The corrosion free stainless steel exhaust with its permanently smooth surface provides much less of a key and so reduces the sooting up process. As the soot itself will cause corrosion when damp, this accelerates the corrosion in a mild steel exhaust, while the stainless steel exhaust remains corrosion free. Corrosion along with failure at the corrosion points is usually the killer for mild steel exhausts.
Mild steel exhausts are not now stock items at most dealers, but are fairly easy to obtain, they are not so significantly cheap that a stainless steel exhaust should not be considered. A stainless steel exhaust is probably double the cost and very easy to obtain (there are many providers) as it is made on site either using the existing exhaust as a pattern or tailoring the new exhaust to suit. The stainless steel exhaust should outlast the mild steel exhaust by double the time, and so should prove cost effective, considering that it can also be repaired.
For me, and the nature of the way in which I may use a particular car, the advantages of having a stainless steel exhaust can far outweigh the advantages of a mild steel exhaust. I have had many cars over the years and of those I have intended keeping for a significant time I have usually replaced their standard exhaust with a stainless steel exhaust. I have also used a number of different suppliers for my stainless steel exhausts and to date (touch wood) I have not had a problem with a stainless steel exhaust from any supplier.
Lastly, the stainless steel exhaust looks and sounds loads (and loads) better it’s always clean and can be polished up too (if anyone is that fanatical).
For anyone considering a new exhaust, I recently had a Powerflow stainless steel exhaust fitted to my R4.
Powerflow have a number of outlets across the country and having asked around, I found that Brittania Exhausts in Derby are my local dealer. Brittania supplied and fitted the stainless steel exhaust to my car, I found them very helpful and currently (again touch wood) there are no problems.
However, I will keep you informed.
Many thanks for your comments regarding the stainless steel exhaust.
Indeed there are advantages and disadvantages to both mild steel exhausts and stainless steel exhausts.
For a car that is used infrequently, condensation within the exhaust can be a problem. Mild steel exhausts will corrode from the inside when they are wet with condensation and damp exhaust soot, and an apparently new looking exhaust can, and will, rot from the inside on a car that has done relatively few miles. This does not happen with a stainless steel exhaust.
Cracks may occur when a stainless steel (or mild steel) exhaust is over clamped to the bodywork, i.e. the exhaust mounts are insufficient to provide damping to the vibrating exhaust against the fixed bodywork of the car. This results in the weaker of the two (the exhaust) being stressed with each vibration, in turn resulting in work hardening and cracking of the exhaust.
The continuing heating and cooling of an exhaust can also cause thermal stressing within the metal of an exhaust, which in turn can cause the metal to crack without the assistance of any vibrations. This may be a little more so for a stainless steel exhaust, which is a slightly harder metal.
However, a stainless steel exhaust that is properly fabricated and welded should not crack when supported correctly on the car.
Welds on a stainless steel exhaust will rust depending on the quality of the weld filler, a stainless steel exhaust welded with mild steel filler will rust at the weld. A weld made with good quality stainless steel filler with no impurities (i.e. mild steel) should not rust.
Mild steel exhausts are not worth repairing, they usually require repairing when they are rotten. Stainless steel exhausts can be repaired at any time, they do not rot and good metal is always available for the basis of a repair. A simple crack can be repaired with a small section of new pipe and good quality weld filler.
Regarding the sooting up. A mild steel exhaust will soot up far more quickly than a stainless steel exhaust, this is because the corrosion on the mild steel exhaust provides a good key for the soot to adhere to. The corrosion free stainless steel exhaust with its permanently smooth surface provides much less of a key and so reduces the sooting up process. As the soot itself will cause corrosion when damp, this accelerates the corrosion in a mild steel exhaust, while the stainless steel exhaust remains corrosion free. Corrosion along with failure at the corrosion points is usually the killer for mild steel exhausts.
Mild steel exhausts are not now stock items at most dealers, but are fairly easy to obtain, they are not so significantly cheap that a stainless steel exhaust should not be considered. A stainless steel exhaust is probably double the cost and very easy to obtain (there are many providers) as it is made on site either using the existing exhaust as a pattern or tailoring the new exhaust to suit. The stainless steel exhaust should outlast the mild steel exhaust by double the time, and so should prove cost effective, considering that it can also be repaired.
For me, and the nature of the way in which I may use a particular car, the advantages of having a stainless steel exhaust can far outweigh the advantages of a mild steel exhaust. I have had many cars over the years and of those I have intended keeping for a significant time I have usually replaced their standard exhaust with a stainless steel exhaust. I have also used a number of different suppliers for my stainless steel exhausts and to date (touch wood) I have not had a problem with a stainless steel exhaust from any supplier.
Lastly, the stainless steel exhaust looks and sounds loads (and loads) better it’s always clean and can be polished up too (if anyone is that fanatical).
For anyone considering a new exhaust, I recently had a Powerflow stainless steel exhaust fitted to my R4.
Powerflow have a number of outlets across the country and having asked around, I found that Brittania Exhausts in Derby are my local dealer. Brittania supplied and fitted the stainless steel exhaust to my car, I found them very helpful and currently (again touch wood) there are no problems.
However, I will keep you informed.
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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How much did the exhaust set you back? I'm a fan of stainless exhausts. The one on the MGA was only replaced after 10 years because the stuffing had blown out. Could have cut it open and put some more stuffing in but the exhaust was a bit nasty anyway.
The silencer on the standard R4 is of a restrictive design. Is your stainless one straight through with stuffing? Also are the pipe diameters the same as standard? Could be an option for those of us running Hennessey Hot Up Kits.
Wonder if I could persuade one of these stainless manufacturers to make something for my Gordini. Would save a lot of welding.
The silencer on the standard R4 is of a restrictive design. Is your stainless one straight through with stuffing? Also are the pipe diameters the same as standard? Could be an option for those of us running Hennessey Hot Up Kits.
Wonder if I could persuade one of these stainless manufacturers to make something for my Gordini. Would save a lot of welding.
Andy Sherlock
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Exhaust was £279.99. It extends from manifold extension pipe (by the inner wing) to rear end and includes welded on rear chrome trim. The route of the exhaust is as the original but with beefier mounts to handle the slightly heavier exhaust. 25 year guarantee with free (I think) yearly check up. Mounts need checking regular as there's no rear axle to support the exhaust it they fail.
It's a slightly bigger bore tube with a slightly restrictive silencer (I think), I'll check at the weekend and let you know the details. If it's sunny I'll take some photographs and attatch them.
Both the guy at Brittania Exhausts and my regular engine tuner say I should have the engine tweaked to suit the exhaust. This will probably mean a slightly richer mixture. We shall see when he (engine tuner) puts it on the machine next week.
Regards,
Andy
It's a slightly bigger bore tube with a slightly restrictive silencer (I think), I'll check at the weekend and let you know the details. If it's sunny I'll take some photographs and attatch them.
Both the guy at Brittania Exhausts and my regular engine tuner say I should have the engine tweaked to suit the exhaust. This will probably mean a slightly richer mixture. We shall see when he (engine tuner) puts it on the machine next week.
Regards,
Andy
Andy Sherlock
Enthusiast
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Andy Sherlock
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 103
Andy Sherlock
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 103
It is lower, slightly, the original is 'canted' over slightly and fits a little more snugly alongside the rear chassis member. This silencer lies directly underneath the chassis member.
Malcolm, forgot to say, the pipes entering and exiting the silencer are not in line, suggesting baffles and not straight through. I asked that the exhaust be very similar to the original. The tube is a bigger diameter, 39mm on the original and 41mm on the stainless, I think. You can have whatever silencer you wish, so a straight through would be feasible.
Regards.
Malcolm, forgot to say, the pipes entering and exiting the silencer are not in line, suggesting baffles and not straight through. I asked that the exhaust be very similar to the original. The tube is a bigger diameter, 39mm on the original and 41mm on the stainless, I think. You can have whatever silencer you wish, so a straight through would be feasible.
Regards.
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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Looks like a good diameter - no restriction there. And the fact the inlet and outlet are in different places is helpful for a stainless exhaust as it means it's doing it's silencing by expansion and reflection rather than by absorption. That's better as the stuffing in the absorption silencers blows out over a few years and makes the exhaust noisy.
Thanks for the photos. I'm guessing they've used pre-made bits from other exhausts as there is a dip to go under a live rear axle or rear driveshafts. I might make one up myself for my car as my motor factor lists stainless steel bends and tubes. Still to decide on a silencer though - I like my exhaust to be quiet.
Thanks for the photos. I'm guessing they've used pre-made bits from other exhausts as there is a dip to go under a live rear axle or rear driveshafts. I might make one up myself for my car as my motor factor lists stainless steel bends and tubes. Still to decide on a silencer though - I like my exhaust to be quiet.
Andy Sherlock
Enthusiast
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The guy showed me around the workshop, I didn't see any pre made bends, only pre made silencers, they had lots of different diameter pipe lengths and a very large pipe bending machine. The rear bend on my car is exaggerated in the photo's, its actually not too far out from the original.
If you can get pre made parts, and you can weld, then you should be able to knock a system up. Remember that a stainless system will be heavier and your mounts may need beefing up.
Packed silencers are a pain, on my motorbikes, some after market silencers have needed repacking now and again. I've also seen cars with strands of the stuff blowing out the back like long hair blowing in the wind.
Regards.
If you can get pre made parts, and you can weld, then you should be able to knock a system up. Remember that a stainless system will be heavier and your mounts may need beefing up.
Packed silencers are a pain, on my motorbikes, some after market silencers have needed repacking now and again. I've also seen cars with strands of the stuff blowing out the back like long hair blowing in the wind.
Regards.