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Tube or Tubeless

Messages
157
Location
English but live in France 87250
#1
My R4 currently has 2 tyres fitted tubeless and 2 fitted with tubes which as an old motorcycle man i admit to preferring. I have had problems with tubeless tyres on alloy and steel rims which are not paint perfect and therefore difficult to get an airtight seal.

What is the view and preference here Tubes or Tubeless
 

mr-reno-139

AKA Paul Cunningham
Messages
2,162
Location
lancing west sussex england
#2
depending on year of r4
different design rims are fitted early cars generally pre 77 need tubes to seal
officially then you are not allowed to fit tubes to tubeless tyres as they have stiffening ribs internally that can rub through tube
this will be controversial subject
 
Messages
157
Location
West Sussex
#3
Firstly, are your tyres and (just as important) your wheels tube-type or tubeless-type?
If the wheels are tube-type, (without the necessary profile for tubeless tyres), you must fit tubes. If they are tube-type wheels, (as most will be from roughly the eighties onwards), then you can fit either.
If your tyres are tube-type, you must fit tubes. If they are tubeless-type, then although you can fit tubes, there are two down-sides. Firstly, if there are ridges on the inside of the tyre, there are reports of them rubbing against the tube, generating friction/heat and causing the tube to fail. (I don't know whether or not this does actually happen). Secondly, tyres with tubes in are less safe than tubeless tyres without tubes. This is because, when a sharp object punctures a tubeless tyre, the air can only escape via the same hole that the object is (usually) still occupying. The tyre will therefore gradually lose pressure, as the air gradually escapes through the blocked hole. It may not leak at all until the object is removed. However, if a tube is fitted, the sharp object will also puncture the tube and very quickly, (particularly with the movement of the tyre against the road and therefore the sharp object against the tube), air will escape from within the tube to the area between the tube and the tyre, the tube will then move within the tyre, allowing the air to rapidly escape through the valve hole. This can happen within a few revolutions of the wheel, so in effect, a blowout.
If cornering during that rapid deflation, the tyre has a much better chance of staying on a wheel designed for tubeless tyres than one that wasn't.
 

mr-reno-139

AKA Paul Cunningham
Messages
2,162
Location
lancing west sussex england
#4
Firstly, are your tyres and (just as important) your wheels tube-type or tubeless-type?
If the wheels are tube-type, (without the necessary profile for tubeless tyres), you must fit tubes. If they are tube-type wheels, (as most will be from roughly the eighties onwards), then you can fit either.
If your tyres are tube-type, you must fit tubes. If they are tubeless-type, then although you can fit tubes, there are two down-sides. Firstly, if there are ridges on the inside of the tyre, there are reports of them rubbing against the tube, generating friction/heat and causing the tube to fail. (I don't know whether or not this does actually happen). Secondly, tyres with tubes in are less safe than tubeless tyres without tubes. This is because, when a sharp object punctures a tubeless tyre, the air can only escape via the same hole that the object is (usually) still occupying. The tyre will therefore gradually lose pressure, as the air gradually escapes through the blocked hole. It may not leak at all until the object is removed. However, if a tube is fitted, the sharp object will also puncture the tube and very quickly, (particularly with the movement of the tyre against the road and therefore the sharp object against the tube), air will escape from within the tube to the area between the tube and the tyre, the tube will then move within the tyre, allowing the air to rapidly escape through the valve hole. This can happen within a few revolutions of the wheel, so in effect, a blowout.
If cornering during that rapid deflation, the tyre has a much better chance of staying on a wheel designed for tubeless tyres than one that wasn't.
thanks for typing the long version to fill in the gaps of my reply above
 

mr-reno-139

AKA Paul Cunningham
Messages
2,162
Location
lancing west sussex england
#6
I have a much faster method using voice dictation you can just talk to the phone phone and then it will type exactly what you want even supercalifragilisticexpialidocious with no effort except punctuation is a bit trickier :-)
 
Messages
157
Location
West Sussex
#8
I have a much faster method using voice dictation you can just talk to the phone phone and then it will type exactly what you want even supercalifragilisticexpialidocious with no effort except punctuation is a bit trickier :-)
So when you dictated that, did you say "phone" twice or was that a glitch?!
 

angel

Enthusiast
Messages
2,006
Location
Athens, Greece
#10
If they are tubeless-type, then although you can fit tubes, there are two down-sides. Firstly, if there are ridges on the inside of the tyre, there are reports of them rubbing against the tube, generating friction/heat and causing the tube to fail. (I don't know whether or not this does actually happen).
It happened to me on both my R4s, and convinced me to switch to tubeless. I am running Continental Eco-Contact 3 on both cars, but searching around and asking tyre shops revealed that there is no modern tyre designed for inner tubes (smooth inner surface). Another benefit is that space between wheel and tube will not hold moisture, so if your wheel is in good shape, it will stay as such and will never rust.
If you must use tubes, at least get some good quality ones (they are becoming increasingly hard to find, though) and replace them frequently.
 

JdeW

Enthusiast
Messages
652
Location
Laarbeek The Netherlands
#12
Always driven tubeless in my first '83 model and over 450,000km never a problem except for inevitable tire change
 
Messages
157
Location
English but live in France 87250
#13
Ok I am convinced by the discussion and will remove the tubes and fit tubeless valves, which size do i need to get TR414 or ?
 
Messages
126
Location
Sawbridgeworth
#15
HI, I have been reading the above thread with interest. I have managed to find a set or Amil flower wheels and was advised by the previous owner to use tubes with them. However having read the above comments I`m now not sure how to proceed. I know others on here have the same wheels so would be grateful for some advice.





IMG-20200706-WA0000.jpg


Cheers Simon.
 

mr-reno-139

AKA Paul Cunningham
Messages
2,162
Location
lancing west sussex england
#16
I told you it would be controversial I'm pretty sure the alloy wheels have got the necessary hump to stop the tyre coming off.the Rim
 

malcolm

& Clementine the Cat
Staff member
Messages
4,203
Location
Bedford UK
#18
HI, I have been reading the above thread with interest. I have managed to find a set or Amil flower wheels and was advised by the previous owner to use tubes with them. However having read the above comments I`m now not sure how to proceed. I know others on here have the same wheels so would be grateful for some advice.





View attachment 26510


Cheers Simon.
I don't use tubes in the TX with those wheels. Ordinary tubeless modern tyres are fine.
 

malcolm

& Clementine the Cat
Staff member
Messages
4,203
Location
Bedford UK
#19
I told you it would be controversial I'm pretty sure the alloy wheels have got the necessary hump to stop the tyre coming off.the Rim
In practice tyres don't tend to fall off rims so long as they are inflated. Simply adding tubes to modern tyres won't make a jot of difference to tyre roll off. If anything it will increase the chance of the tyre becoming deflated.

I think there was a discussion in the past about replacing crossply tyres with radals causing everyone to die, but people seem to be getting used to radial tyres now.
 
Messages
349
Location
Poole
#20
Also very important is not to use old tyres even if they look great. The rubber goes hard and less flexible and can break up or lose grip more easily than new tyres. I have actually felt the obvious difference in grip when changing from old tyres to new.

Ten years and they are in the bin.
 
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