brake adjustment

[mojobaby]

this afternoon I adjusted the drum brakes on my 1980 1100.

Do the adjusters have a reverse thread, or is it just me getting confused?

I failed a roadworthy last week, cos the brakes pull to one side. There's no leakage that I can see, so I thought perhaps the brake linings were wearing unevenly. Haven't given it a road test yet-tomorrow morning after I do the back brakes

 

[mojobaby]

please help guys! can someone give me a bit of advice with my brake adjustments.
The Heynes manual says that with the wheel removed, the drum should rotate with very slight friction with the brake shoe.
I've adjusted the front brakes with the square headed adjusters, but when I got to the back wheels, the adjusters aren't square. They're rectangular and only about 1-2mm thickness.
My right back brake is perfect but the left back rotates very freely and I think I should tighten it up a bit.
Also how do I get the grease cap off, I don't want to damage it? is there a special tool for this?
thanks for your help!

 

[barnfind]

To get the grease cap off, use a large mole grip, not set to grip too tightly and just rotate the cap off. Don't clamp it so hard that you cave in the cap.
To tighten up your brakes, turn the adjusting tool that you are using, outwards and down.
If your brakes are uneven, another possibility is that the wheel cylinder has seized up on one side and there is no braking effort on that corner.
If you can't see an adjuster, some models have self adjusting brakes, although, since you have manual adjusters on the front, it would be unlikely to have a mixture of self adjusters and auto adjusters on one car.

 

[Realnut4]

If you can't see an adjuster, some models have self adjusting brakes, although, since you have manual adjusters on the front, it would be unlikely to have a mixture of self adjusters and auto adjusters on one car.

The early GTLs have front drum brakes which do not automatically readjust, but the rear brakes do.
We had a similar problem with our 1982 F6 van and basically replaced everything - wheel cylinders, brake shoes AND the springs that hold the stufff together:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Montagesatz-...719975912?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item1e6f8489e8

 

[barnfind]

Well that's almost certainly the answer then. It looks like your solution is to remove the drums and have a look. You may have to zero the brake shoes to do this.

 

[politeperson]

Yes, you are going to have to get stuck in, its pretty straightforward.

In 1980 when the car was new, the brakes could of survived all sorts of abuse for about 5 years with little or no maintenance.

Couple that with 30 years of being parked outside then to make them serviceable you may have to go he extra mile. Imagine what you would look like if you had been parked outside for 30 years.

Worth stripping them down to the hubs, and in all probability replacing everything. It all has to be cleaned and go back together with copper grease to stop it all seizing solid again.

Luckily everything is readily available so all pretty cheap, so well worth it, otherwise your brakes will be overheating or pulling this way or that for ever.

 

[mojobaby]

thanks very much everyone! I will take your advice and open it all up to take a look. The front brakes have the square adjusters, as I've said, but I've posted a photo to show you what the back brakes look like. Is that a self adjuster? It's obviously not working.
I suppose I must have adjusters on the front and self adjusters on the back

 

[politeperson]

Looks in nice condition from what I can see. Maybe you will get awat with taking it all apart and then putting it all back together again with copper grease. Unlikely though.

No adjuster, so self adjusting brake shoes.

Malcolm has got it pretty well covered here. This is what you are aiming for-

http://www.renault4.co.uk/tech-brake-drums.htm

All I would add is that if your wheel bearings are quiet (which they probably are), then you should take extra care to protect the inner bearing race, as if you contaminate it or you damage the fragile cage, you will have to replace it.

Often the only way to remove the inner race is to carefully cut it out with an angle grinder, so this is best avoided.

Also, if you get involved with brake pipes, they can be a funny mixture of metric and imperial depending which type of brakes are fitted to your car.

 

[barnfind]

Yes, the square is where the adjuster would be on a manually adjusted brake. I think that on this model, it is a plug which you can pull out that allows you to push in a screwdriver and release the adjuster, if you find that the shoes are binding on the drum too much to allow it to pull off. You might need a puller for the drum once you have taken off the nut inside the grease cap, mine fortunately, just pulled off.
I think that Mr Haynes suggests that if it is obstinate and you don't have a suitable puller , loosely refit the wheel to the studs and then jerk the wheel outwards to jar the drum loose.
I can't vouch for that technique, but if you try it, make sure that your car is well supported and not just perched on its jack, and pull the wheel squarely. If you tilt the wheel and drum , then it won't work.
If your wheel cylinder is seized or leaking, I'd advise replacement. Replacing seals is a bit of a lottery in my experience and new items are easily picked up on Ebay or through your local spares shop.

 

[malcolm]

They look like ordinary self adjusting GTL brakes as the link earlier. Bendix probably. The square is the thing that the spring securing the brake shoes attaches to. Way in is by removing the hub nut. If the self adjust isn't working it's probably because the mechanism has seized up a little. Can pull it apart and lubricated with copper ease (not grease or oil).

You'll see when you get inside. Lift the seals from the brake cylinders with your finger. If fluid comes out that are leaking and might have contaminated the brake shoes. I normally change shoes and cylinders when I'm in there as a matter of course as they are not expensive.

 

[mojobaby]

Thanks for all the help! I'll get some copper grease next week- I suppose in French that's "graisse d'cuivre"
Barnfind mentioned a Mole grip to get the grease cap off. I didn't know what that was until I "googled" it. In South Africa we call it a "vice grip", so that's fine cos I have one-really useful for plumbing jobs!
I did in fact try to turn that rectangular plate, as I thought it was an adjuster. It just turned and turned and did nothing so I don't think it's attached to anything.

By the way, in about a weeks time I'm buying another R4. Spotted it in a barn nearby. It's been there for 14 years and the wheels are seized solid, so all the info you gave me on this thread is going to come in handy. Will definitely be posting a few photos

 

[politeperson]

14 years. Get in there, get those wheels off, remove the brakes ( you will be an expert by then) and get it rolling.

Post some pics!