GTL Gearbox required...

[mr-reno-139]

have found the elusive gearbox manual which lists all 354/HA0/HA1 boxes across the range but is dated 1982 so obviosly cars and vans after then may have further differences bearing in mind PR900 book dated 1993 says some boxes on cars and van are same part number

without scanning the whole book i will summarise
there are 6 !!!!! alternative gear ratio sets on 4speed models and 6 final drive ratios
spain gets more choice we seem to only get 4.125 for 845cc (and 1108 vans)
and generally 3.1 for cars
it does also list one gearset for HA1 5sp but 3:eek: final drive ratios depending on model 8x33, 9x31,10x31 (4.125, 3.875, 3.1)the low ratio was only for 956cc R5s we never got in uk hence Mr Haynes ignoring it

finally malcolm as i posted earlier your 354-97 box is spanish FASA R1128 with 3.1 diff

vote now do i scan book or is everybody still reading going to post me their box tag numbers so i can look them all up

 

[bison]

So, looks like I'm stuck with my 4.125 ratio for Rene!

 

[SteveC]

Cor blimey!

This has got very techy.

Im embarassed to say I havent actually done much research on this myself.

All I know for sure is that my 1108 F6 van is revving its heart out at 70. And that the car gearbox has a longer final drive as its not supposed to be such a load lugger.

I 'assumed' id be able to 'simply' swap the entire gearbag to give Mr Tourette's Signwriting van slightly longer legs.

I can't bear taking it away on long weekends into the Brecon Beacons cycling, or worse still down to Newquay or Croyde to go surfing as it is...

And its much less fun parked up in the garage than it is out on a trip away...

 

[malcolm]

My reading is that both the crazy Spanish gearbox and the unknown GTL gearbox I have knocking around both have a 3.1:1 diff ratio - so both should be more relaxed than your 4.25:1. I fitted a GTL gearbox in my old f6 if I remember correctly. Certainly I fitted the engine but that turned out to have seized since it's previous outing - another story. I remember to check these days.

I might move the technical stuff to it's own thread as it's the best chat we've ever had about gearing on the forum.

Are you sure about the 5 speed final drive ratios Mr Reno? Mr Haynes has them down as 4.13:1 or 3.44:1, neither of which feature in your post. Either the good Mr Haynes is wrong (he's been wrong before with talk about soft faced hammers and reassembly being the reverse of disassembly) or does your book need dusting?

 

[bison]

So what side id the diff crown wheel on in your Spanish box?, same as the GTL?. Looking into the bell housing is it on the right or the left ?

 

[angel]

It should be on the same side as the GTL as the Spanish engines were of the 5 bearing "family", all of them turn clockwise.
Swapping the crownwheel on these gearboxes would not be good for the life of the teeth, and you will get higher frictional losses from the final drive.

Now just for fun, I looked at the FIA homologation papers for the GTL. Two more final drives are listed ,9x34 (3.78) and 8x35 (4.375, low!). As they are not on the competition parts pages, they must come from a production gearbox.

 

[mr-reno-139]

well now were back on line i spose i am going to have to find my scanner then malcolm :roll:

yes angel they were 2 of the 6 final drive ratios listed !!

sorry bison seem to think all 845 had low ratio but not knowing all my oval plate numbers for 5 s 6s 7s off the top of my head ,will need further research

cant read gearbox tag on new 845 5 box too dark in store no torch no glasses

for poor Stevec just been and checked my 84 Red F6 van (scrap one ) has got HAO 146 box also 3.1 same as cars (GTL)do tell us your id tag number to compare its attached to one of the corner bolts on top cover of box

and finally according to the book french post (PTT) have their own special boxes (just so Greeney doesnt feel left out )

EDIT found scanner lost power supply for it
heres a pic of book just to prove it exists and i am not making it all up :smile:

 

[SteveC]

I guess the first thing i need to do is get the code of the gearbox ID tag to see whats in there already.

I'll be suprised if mine is the car FD ratio, ive never heard anthing rev so high on the motorway... 60 or 65 is top speed without feeling like your going to break it. 85mph absoloute tops...

 

[David M]

High revs

I had a 1974 Renault 5TL many years ago. It had the 4.125 final drive and the dash gear lever. I loved it! It was a 956cc originally, but I took it out to 1289cc with a Renault 12 motor. I remember vividly that it did 100 km/hr @ 4000 rpm. This is 62mph in your world. Changing the final drive was not possible in Australia. (Only 6 examples of R5's made it here)

You could attach a tachometer to your engine via lengthy wires so that you or a passenger could see your revs as you were driving. At the revs you are describing, I'm confident that you have a 4.125 final drive.

A GTL gearbox would drop the revs to about 3,100. Quiter, more relaxed, more economical.

Do it if you can!


David

 

[mr-reno-139]

this is going to be one of the longest threads going !
spoke to matt (MGUEZ) today who also has 1986 F6 he says his revs a lot at 70 mph though without a rev counter, how much we dont know ?
i am going to investigate his clonking from steering next week (and his clutch is starting to slip ) so will see what ratio his is too

 

[SteveC]

I wired up a rev counter today... i guess ill be able to say exactly how many too many revs its doing now!

was about 2k at 35mph, so that'll be around 4k @70mph.

 

[mr-reno-139]

didnt you find the gearbox tag then steve ? bit awkward getting your head down the front as the bonnet and radiator are in the way

dont rely on speedo use the mph readout on a sat-nav !

 

[SteveC]

Damn it, knew there was somthing I forgot to look at!

Its had a busy weekend. We rebuilt the front suspension again on Friday evening to get the height right... Its close but still not perfect so it'll all have to come apart again down the line.

But it was good enough to take two of us away on a one night camping trip to Gloucester for the grass track nationals... Its gone off with one of the others who's put a load of cash in now on a cycling/camping trip into wales. Before I go off in it down to Dorset next weekend.

She's finally giving back some of the love we've given her in the last year!