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Do I really need to dismantle half the car to get starter out

Gsouthee

Grumpy ol man
Messages
86
Location
Hawkhurst, Kent
#1
Hi I found out tonight that Irma wont turn over, Battery condition all good. Live going from ignition switch to Grey wire. Need to check at the starter end but I am not any clicking or anything. Will test the the connections tomorrow.

However looking at my little book for the 1982 GTL it seems I have to dismantle most of the car (well maybe a bit of an exaggeration) Is this really necessary or is there an easier way.

Would a starter just suddenly stop like that, it has not been a problem until tonight.

Any pointers greatly appreciated.

Cheers Gary
 

Bobble

Enthusiast
Messages
538
Location
Rutland
#2
Hi, there's usually another wire connection about 12 inches from the single wire that comes from the stater on the nearside bottom bulkhead, check there as that might have come lose or disconnected :-)
 
Messages
321
#3
It's unusual for starters to just "die" like that-they usually run slower and splutter before giving up the ghost. I'd be tempted to carry out some tests with the starter in situ before dismantling anything. Start by checking all the connections to the starter are good and tight, including the engine's earth strap. After that I'd bypass the ignition switch, to check if there's a fault in it, by running a wire from the positive terminal on the battery to the solenoid connection on the starter motor. If the starter operates normally you know there's a fault in either the ignition switch or the wiring to & from it to the starter motor. Try these options first & report back.......
 
Messages
242
Location
Poole
#4
I had a prob where there was a push-connector going to the starter (the solenoid power cable), which became unplugged at speed :whistle:
 

angel

Enthusiast
Messages
1,900
Location
Athens, Greece
#5
The worst case is that your car is a LHD pre-83 GTL (dash mounted handbrake lever). You have to remove the following parts to get to the starter:
Air filter
Handbrake linkage with its bracket on chassis
Steering column at the rack end, so that it can be moved slightly
Left hand engine mounting bridge piece
The three bolts holding the starter and the top nut of the engine mounting bridge are a bit hard to get to, but accessible with a basic tool kit, no special tools needed.
Then, the starter can be removed with a bit of wiggling and holding the steering column.
 

Gsouthee

Grumpy ol man
Messages
86
Location
Hawkhurst, Kent
#6
Cheers guys, and angel yep LHD 1982, let me hope it's the wiring. Will look for this other wire that goes to the bulkhead.

Will let you know.

G
 

mr-reno-139

AKA Paul Cunningham
Messages
2,005
Location
lancing west sussex england
#7
Try hitting starter motor while assistant turns key will confirm problem if it decides to work again
May help you drive car to better location for dismantling
 

Gsouthee

Grumpy ol man
Messages
86
Location
Hawkhurst, Kent
#8
Well tried all the connections and a separate feed wire to solenoid, also gave it a whack with the hammer and I got a click from the solenoid and then bugger all after that no more click. I think this indicates a shot starter based on passed experience with old classics. So started dismantling as per Angel and good ol Haynes ( this may be difficult with engine in situ, is an understatement!!!).

Got first 2 bolts out but how the hell do you get to the third one, I've tried my universal drive, my flexi drive, a spanner etc it seems that it is a nut and bolt on this but cant see clearly, tried form on top and underneath. now fed up.

Can't get Irma into my garage as I have my AC diagonally across it at mo waiting for last coat of paint(when it arrives, dear ol Hermes late again). Then I can straighten her up and get in. So may leave it now until I can over my pit.

But in the mean time any suggestions re the third nut appreciated.

Gary
 

Gsouthee

Grumpy ol man
Messages
86
Location
Hawkhurst, Kent
#12
Mr Reno, I've got a 1/4 drive and a universal head, might try bending/cut and weld a spanner. God its a bugger to get at.

JdeW cheers that's a good site. It looks like taking off the manifolds makes it a lot easier.

Andy Yep that's a good tool to have, Ive got some imperial 90 degree wrench but with a longer arm but might fit, seen some Facom on uk ebay as well. but might contact the french guy to see if he can post to uk.

Cheers Guys.
 

mr-reno-139

AKA Paul Cunningham
Messages
2,005
Location
lancing west sussex england
#13
Two other thoughts that come to mind if you do take the manifold off make sure you fit a new gasket as this is a common cause of poor Running the other is two different designs not manufacturers notice of starter motor
83 onwards should have the later short starter motor before that time longer ones were original equipment if you have got a short one on there now you may find the replacement is a longer one one and you will really struggle to get it back in with the manifold on if you've got a long one on

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/223547942096 this spanner is what I seem to recall using to get to this bottom Bolt I've also used a quarter drive flexi head knuckle bar which is only about 50 mm long
 

angel

Enthusiast
Messages
1,900
Location
Athens, Greece
#16
Fitting a socket and universal joint there is actually harder than two spanners. No fancy ones needed, as you can see I use a straight 13mm ring spanner and a 13mm combination spanner for backup, there is just enough room to turn the spanner 1/12th of a turn, but if not, the engine can be raised slightly as Paul suggested.
Can be made a bit easier if you have a half moon ring spanner.
Note that this R4 has the latest dash handbrake on the right side of the steerig column. Its cable gets in the way, but it's still entirely possible to work on the lower bolt.

DSCN2043.JPG

DSCN2046.JPG
 

Gsouthee

Grumpy ol man
Messages
86
Location
Hawkhurst, Kent
#17
Cheers

My handbrake is on the left right in the bloody way, I also note the starter on yours looks shorter than mine. Hey ho, got to wait a bit while I move my other car out of the way in the garage, cant be doing this outside in the rain.

Will take some pics and let you know how many times I swear at at it.

G
 

Gsouthee

Grumpy ol man
Messages
86
Location
Hawkhurst, Kent
#18
ARGHHHH ouch ouch, bugger it etc etc etc. But got it off in the end. checked it and it is knackered, the bush thingy at the end where the pinion flie out is smashed and split. Cant see one as spare to rebuild it. So seeking a new starter.

It is a Paris Rhone D9E68, i think I have found a suitable one in Germany on Ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Anlasser...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Also this one https://www.onlineautomotive.co.uk/...AfQA2ADQAdwBYAEwAbABJACcAWABcAE4AIwAhAFgANwA=

Cant get hold of either at moment but will try monday to confirm it fits.

Anyone know anywhere else I can get one.

Cheers Gary
 
Messages
321
#19
It's a bit of a trek from Hawkhurst, but may I recommend Unit Exchange, of Borehamwood, Hertfordshire to repair (or even perhaps replace) your starter motor. Although quite a distance from you, they have in the past managed to refurbish starter motors and dynamos from cars as diverse as Wartburgs, Reliants and Dafs, so a Renault 4 won't be outside their comfort zone! Worth a 'phone call anyway: 020 8953 9971 or www.unitexchange.com
 

mr-reno-139

AKA Paul Cunningham
Messages
2,005
Location
lancing west sussex england
#20
My advice to you you is a try and buy a new new or reconditioned one that is definitely the shorter type as if it gives trouble at a later date it will be much easier to get in and out pretty sure you could get one from Mr Auto oven A Seller in the UK OK without too much problem
 
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