Really Good condtion R-4 GTL WANTED ASAP

[minisumner]

Hello.
I am new member to the R4 Forum and I am looking for some help in trying to locate a really good condition R4 GTL to buy.

In the past I have had several R-4 GTL's but recently moved to old Mini Cooper's from the 1960's...

However, I am now in the market to try and find a really good condition one, and if possible low mileage GTL. I would prefer this car to be a RHD model and I don’t mind if the car has been freshly restored, as long as it’s been done to a high standard!

Please can anyone help?
I really need to find a car in the next month or so.

Thank you
Kind regards,
David.

 

[renault4mad]

Hi, good choice...but are you prepared to pay top pound notes for a really good one..and make sure its from someone who knows about them....theres a lot of crooks out there selling boged up ones

cheers
Andrew

 

[minisumner]

Thanks Andrew,

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the advise.

Trying to find a good GTL example with little or no rust is proving to be almost impossible. Do you have any clues where I might find a really good RHD car?

Also what price do you think is reasonable for a really good example?

Thanks for your help.

Kind Regards,
David

 

[snailshed]

Trying to find a good GTL example with little or no rust is proving to be almost impossible. Also what price do you think is reasonable for a really good example?

Hi David, I think to be honest rhd Renault 4's in any condition are now hard to find. I think the 'how many left' webpage recently quoted surviving UK r4's around the 300 mark. With regards to pricing I think £2500 will get you something respectable (that may need a few odd jobs doing), and £3500 will get you in the area you say you are looking for, if you are lucky.

In rhd you have to find someone with a good one actually willing to sell it though, so there may be 1 car available in the UK at any given time, hence if they want £5000 for it, and they won't budge then thats what you have to pay, unless you are prepared to wait until the next one.

The rising price of 2cv's is probably influencing this to some extent. I always though £4000 was top money for a 2cv but there now seems many about asking 5,6,7K. That starts making an exceptional R4 at £3500 look cheap...

 

[renault4mad]

speedwayrob recently sold a GTL he restored for £4500 but that came with a glossy blow by blow account picture book with every stage of its rebuild...

it was on the renault classic car club stand at last years NEC show..

maybe buy a resonable one and pay good money to get it restored..

 

[Cornish4]

Hi there, I think Andrew is right, buy something reasonably priced and trust it to a recommended restorer, someone like Derek Flavel at Renospeed. This can be be much better than buying a supposedly "restored" car only to find out later that it's been bodged. Unless, as in the case of Robs' car there is a photographic history of the car, walk away. Good luck with your quest, hope you find what you are looking for. Regards Brian.

 

[Firstandbest]

This is what I posted last September Prices don't seem to be following the usual rules of supply and demand. Few cars available and there is growing market interest. I think there will always be a few uk rhd cars entering the sales market each year (maybe as few as 15) but most of the 300 or so existing owners in the uk find the price is reassuring but not tempting enough to sell. Therefore the price appears low but masked by the 'sentimental value' we put on our cars.
Ownership and interest brings a unique benefit - being a member of this forum and the RCCC - a great group of friends. Now that is priceless!

The elusive new chassis will be the biggest game changer increasing longevity, increasing supply and creating a wider market...

Another factor is Renospeed - Derek's unique and brilliant service is a key factor for many of us in owning and enjoying our cars on the road.

 

[minisumner]

Thank you all for your help and kind advice.

A couple of cars have already surfaced, or are about to surface in the near future, so it looks like there are some original RHD R4 GTL’s out there.

The first car is a car is a 1983 GTL called Mushy Pea, which is currently being totally restored and looks like a really nice car, plus the colour is gorgeous.

The second car is a 1986 Red GTL, which belongs to Lobster and again looks like a really nice original and straight car.

I just need to check these cars out to make sure that they are to right standard or to a reasonably well restored standard. Whatever a required standard might be with a classic car!

Thanks for the heads up advise on Renospeed, I will be sure to look them up and seek advice before I buy anything.

I was also interested to see that Firstandbest mentioned that you can now get new chassis, which will certainly make maintaining your car a more realistic proposition going forward.

Once again thanks for your help.
Kind Regards
David.

 

[Firstandbest]

Hi David

The two major German and French aftersales firms have completed designs and have approvals for building complete chassis' - announced around 9 months ago. Franzose were leading.

If the gestation period is similar to humans we can anticipate news soon. They already make for 2CVs and others. Cost around £1,500.

Good luck in your search and look forward to meeting you behind the wheel!

Mark

 

[Rutger-peer]

On the Dutch forums there's already been word that it's not going to fly with the new chassis for R4's, have you guys missed out on those notifications or are those just rumours?

 

[simonandjuliet]

Opinion sought

Following on from Mark's comments, the following survey box comes up when you log onto "Melun Reto's" site. It confirms what Mark said about approval having been received for making chassis and asks, without any commitment on our part, views on the remanufacture of these chassis.

I do wonder though if it will ever happen !

"Fabrication de plateformes pour RENAULT 4
FERMER


Suite à différents échanges avec les responsables de Renault Classic, relatifs au projet de fabrication de plateformes et d’éléments de plateforme destinés aux véhicules RENAULT 4 ; MELUN RETRO PASSION a obtenu officiellement par courrier en date du 19 mai 2011, l’autorisation de RENAULT s.a.

Compte tenu de l’intérêt pour les collectionneurs de continuer à rouler en RENAULT 4, nous vous demandons sans aucun engagement de votre part, votre avis en remplissant notre formulaire"

 

[Firstandbest]

Becoming Hostages to Fortune ....The Continuing Chassis Story

Per Google Translate - I cheated, looks reasonable!

____________

Following various discussions with officials of Renault Classic, on the proposed manufacture of platforms and platform components for vehicles RENAULT 4; MELUN RETRO PASSION received officially by letter dated May 19, 2011, authorization of RENAULT
Given the interest of collectors continue driving RENAULT 4, we ask no obligation on your part, your opinion by filling out our form "

___________

... Bet little interest was expressed and we are chasing 'Fools Gold' whilst Melun 'support the car (and their existing sales)'.

Interesting to see what Franzose do, or don't do.

Safest bet is to assume no new chassis on the horizon and only buy/keep cars that have a good, or reasonably repairable underside if looking long term.

I reckon Steve has a dozen tucked away waiting for the right market conditions!


PS Latest How Many Left stats for end 2011 are due soon.

 

[jjad]

Just got this email from Melun Retro Passion:

Merci d’avoir été si nombreux à répondre à notre formulaire concernant la fabrication de Châssis RENAULT 4.
Voici en avant-première les photographies de l’avancée du projet

Photo N°1 : Découpe laser des tôles de longeron complet droit et gauche avant pliage

Photo N°2 : plancher complet, base plancher neuf d'origine pour la nouvelle fabrication en cours d'élaboration.

Conscient de la complexité de notre projet, l’objectif d’un tarif en dessous de 2000€ reste notre priorité.
Concernant la question du délai, nous aimerions une date de sortie courant 2013 !

A bientôt Pour la suite de cette aventure!

It says that a price below €2000 remains a priority and the delayed release date will sometime in 2013.

 

[Rutger-peer]

Does this mean that they are still busy with it and so the new chassis still has a chance of becoming reality?

 

[Firstandbest]

Reads that way to me. If the 'market' believes, or more positive news creeps out either officially or unofficially, then we will see prices creep up as 2013 looms.

Current prices reflect the relatively short lifespan of owning a R4.

A bit like the difference between buying property with a short v long lease - this is reflected in the price. Chassis production would make the proposition ( and therefore value) more viable.

Even those like me with several years of chassis life ahead can look to the long term confidently.

Out of interest, perhaps Steve or Malcolm, roughly how long does it take for two people to swap a chassis?

Mark

 

[Rutger-peer]

Out of interest, perhaps Steve or Malcolm, roughly how long does it take for two people to swap a chassis?

Mark

Depends really on how well you want to do it. You can take your body off pretty easily, unscrew the body, pull it off, take the seats off, take the engine out, get the suspension off, gas tank etc... it's probably a few days of work (take into account the occasional broken, stuck, twisted etc. bolts ...

But then comes the part where you discover everything is rusty, the edge of the body (where it meets the chassis), the suspension where you bolt it onto the chassis etc. etc. If you don't care about that or about the old pieces of sealant (with pieces of rust of the chassis sticked to it) still on the body and don't care too much about a proper seal between body and chassis, then you won't have to go through the painstaking work of cleaning those surfaces (and believe me: the sealant is soooo sticky, even after 30 years).

So depends on how well you want to do it. But a few days of work might do the trick if you're not too picky on the quality of new seals and if you are not tempted to start repairing all kinds of bad and rusty spots that you will undoubtedly encounter once you take it apart.

If you want to do the swap well it will take you way more time. If I had to do it myself and also had the regular things I have to do, I'd think of 2 weeks of work.

 

[Firstandbest]

Brilliant reply - Thanks! Gives confidence to us all. And potrtially 100 plus currently 'SORN' R4s may return to the UK roads!

Good Luck Melun Retro!

 

[barnfind]

Took me three days to strip the car down to a rolling chassis. With help I could probably have been quicker, but I was solo until the lift off of the body shell. To get to a bare chassis you would then have to add another day to strip suspension, brakes etc. off.
If your body tub was okay then you could probably do the whole thing in a week with a bit of help from your friends, providing that you had assessed what new parts you needed and had them to hand, and you didn't have too many tea breaks.

 

[benchseat]

Regarding new chassis, see recent Thread entitled "Renault 4 new chassis in 2013?" which started on 19th April and gives some current information. "Firstandbest" (see above) was not saying that new chassis are available : he was saying that a new chassis was "elusive" - in other words, no aftermarket supplier has yet brought to completion a scheme for manufacturing them.

There does appear to be hope, though : but I was told by Ansgar Biemann of Französe in August 2010 that their project had been cancelled as they were unable to meet price requirements (see "Firstandbest" 's post above). Possibly this project has been restarted. The Mélun project seems to be ongoing.

Minisummer : if you do find a good-condition model, you'd be advised to read this Forum carefully regarding how to rustproof R4s, particularly injecting the chassis members with Waxoyl. R4s are rust-traps and unless stored in a dry environment and regularly checked for rust, will disintegrate speedily (especially on salted roads). That is why, of the half a million that were sold in the UK, there are, according to the "How Many Left?" website, now 276 left on the road (plus two sitting in my garden on SORNs waiting for a ****** new chassis!!).

 

[minisumner]

Thanks for the kind advice

Hi bench-seat,
Thank you for the kind advice and for continuing the re-manufacture of the R4 chassis, the story so far…

As someone recently pointed out to me, I should be familiar with rusty old classics, (as I have two 1960’s minis) and to coin the phrase that was sighted ‘those buggers can rust’….

Anyway I am still looking for what would appear to be the Holy Grail, i.e. a really good condition R4 GTL.

I have been to see a couple of cars, but all of these have needed varying amounts of work doing to them.

One car is a nice example but I still felt the tub needed to come off the chassis, just to make sure that things were not too bad on the chassis front.

Anyway I am slowly resigning myself to the fact, that it’s looking like I am going to have to contemplate getting a LHD car from mainland Europe. There appear to be several late cars currently on the French EBay site.

Does anyone have any experience of converting LHD to RHD? I have seen a kit available from Wind Classics. They also appear to have a very nice Red R4 GTL, which looks to be in good condition…

Once again many thanks.
David.