- Thread starter Tomcat
- Start date
mr-reno-139
AKA Paul Cunningham
- Messages
- 2,247
- Location
- lancing west sussex england
Or maybe have a holiday in a warm country and choose your own while you are out there
it must be worthwhile or all these cars wouldn't be for sale in the UK
A true r4 fan would want to keep them all not sell them ☺
Edit added smiley
it must be worthwhile or all these cars wouldn't be for sale in the UK
A true r4 fan would want to keep them all not sell them ☺
Edit added smiley
Last edited:
Colin
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 27
- Location
- Luton
I do wonder why so many imported cars are offered for sale on NOVA's and why they havent gone the whole hog and put it on UK plates, it doesnt cost a lot more or take long and it makes it much more sellable imo. It does put me off buying slightly, its as though they're holding back registering it for a reason and that makes me nervous of dealing with them - espescially when they have more than one vehicle and are charging upper end prices. Are they a dealer or not, are they buying cheap and selling high, are they genuine enthusiasts or just someone who's spotted a quick buck potential ? If they didnt have to register it under NOVA would they ? some advertise it like they've done the potential buyer a favour rather than fulfilling a legal obligation. It could transpire my anxieties are unfounded but there again I know people who have fallen foul of not having the correct paperwork, a NOVA is not a garauntee the vehicle will/canl be registered/accepted by dvla, or is it??
I'm new to the R4 world and I'm actively looking for my first purchase, the spanish deal to me looks a fair price and I would seriously think about it apart from the fact the household government have declared a one car, one bike policy - the days of two little Austins in the front garden and one in the garage are no longer permitted.
I'm new to the R4 world and I'm actively looking for my first purchase, the spanish deal to me looks a fair price and I would seriously think about it apart from the fact the household government have declared a one car, one bike policy - the days of two little Austins in the front garden and one in the garage are no longer permitted.
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
- Messages
- 4,519
- Location
- Bedford UK
In the case of French cars it's because you need an MOT to register them.
The French CT checks the same sort of thing the UK system checks, but rather than failing they tend to give advisories for loose suspension, big holes, lights or brakes not working etc.
Colin
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 27
- Location
- Luton
Yes, so its about costs eating into their profit margin. When I bought my Estafette it was offered as a turn key purchase, reg'd MOT'd and taxed. I was given the option of doing it myself but the difference in cost to me wasnt worth the time and effort. I'm not bothered about being the first name on the V5 because its still a thirty/forty year old car with an unknown history so that makes it kind of irrelevant to me. The MOT's no big deal - Unless the seller is unsure of the true condition of the vehicle he is selling and is unwilling to take the risk so in my eyes the purchaser should be getting a discount in lieu of the potential risk.
Maybe its me being too cynical, I could be missing out on a real gem somewhere.
Maybe its me being too cynical, I could be missing out on a real gem somewhere.
Apprentice
pre-moderated
- Messages
- 84
- Location
- Carmarthen
Slow down Colin. You’re not being too synical. You appear to be suffocating under your own suppositions.
Allow me to offer my input and hopefully put some daylight between fact and guesswork. Speaking as an experienced vehicle importer, the reason that sellers are reluctant to proceed past the NOVA stage is the result of ministerial interference on an industrial scale. Dotty, Potty, Dot.Gov.UK decided to close 37 DVLA local offices in the Autumn of 2013. Net result: 871 immediate redundancies.
Before this date, import registration was a delight. Living so near, for me it was a visit to the local office, put the completed form on the counter [face2face]; the vehicle’s registration document from country of origin; the UK test certificate on V.I.Number; insurance cover note on V.I.Number; registration fee [was £25] and road fund licence fee [6 or 12 months]. I provided my telephone number and three working days later, was given the option of collecting, or receiving by Royal Mail. I repeat: Three Working Days. I chose always to collect.
Now it’s a chore. No more face2face. Everything by post. Fee gone up to £55. My first attempt under the “new streamlined system” [Government jargon for colossal cock-up], was unpleasant and stressful. Document bundle despatched Royal Mail recorded on March 6th this year. Reminder from my insurers after four weeks that I had not provided a UK registration number for my classic VW T4. Explained that it was out of my control since I had heard nothing from the DVLA. I was then bombarded daily by text and eMail that my insurance policy would be cancelled if I did not forward the UK registration number. They even sent me a copy of the Road Traffic Act legislation covering their obligation regarding imported vehicles and chassis number cover. On the 23rd April, my cheque appeared as a cleared item on my statement, and the V5 arrived at my home next day.
If you wish the importer to register a Renault 4 for you, are you prepared to hand over a few thousand quid but not able to collect the vehicle for six weeks?
Do you expect the importer to tie-up their insurance for six weeks?
The buyer has to insure their new acquisition at some time. Doing so at point of purchase surely makes sense to everyone. The buyer then trailer’s their car home, and has 5 or 6 weeks to polish and customise their pride and joy until the postman arrives.
I have even offered a unique service to members of this forum, which short-circuits government insanity. Buy my Portuguese registered white R4GTL and drive it around on my insurance on Portuguese index plates until the UK registration is completed. [You must be over 27 and under 70] The Portuguese M.O.T. is valid until November. All I need from you is the purchase price and an insurance cover note on the Renault’s chassis number. We complete the application in 20 minutes and you send it immediately to the DVLA recorded. Jump in the car and drive away!
I was in Swansea yesterday collecting VW parts. I called at the DVLA on my way home to enquire about a fast track option for imports. There isn’t one!
I respect anyone’s preference to a R.H.D Renault 4. Regrettably, we have to accept that all but the hardiest vehicles are under a death sentence after just one winter’s use on Britain’s treated roads.
Addressing the comments in your first post 09/07/2015, the NOVA is obligatory, as you have correctly stated. It has to be made within 10 days of vehicle arrival or face a fine. This application is made directly to HMRC, who then provide a 17 digit submission reference number. Without that number, any application to register an import would be rejected. For potential Renault 4 owners, this is further senseless legislation as there is no record of any applicant paying V.A.T on vehicles 10 years old or more. It is wholly separate from the registration process.
Colin > “IT DOESN’T COST A LOT MORE OR TAKE LONG…..” that statement is now out of date for the reasons given above.
I believe your next paragraph is more negative and is crowned by: “I know people who have fallen foul of not having the correct paperwork“. Why would anyone expect to have an application granted without the correct paper-work. It is the responsibility of the applicant. Forgive my interpretation if I’m wrong, but I feel that you are placing blame on everyone except the buyer.
I have never entered an engine number on an import application. If I don’t have it – I can’t pluck it from thin air. I have never been questioned on this issue and have never had an application form rejected.
Some readers may deem your use of: dealer; dealing; quick buck; selling high; my anxieties, as bordering on the toxic.
Your second post mentions an Estafette, where you were offered the opportunity to effect the import application yourself, but the difference in cost wasn’t worth the time and effort. If you couldn’t justify the time and effort then, I’m sure you wouldn’t relish the hassle of the same job in 2015.
Since 2008, each time I have purchased real-estate, I go to the Land Registry in Swansea. Take 20 minutes to fill some forms in, hand the seller a cheque, and pick the deeds up one week later [Rocket Science it is not] Saving on solicitor’s conveyance charges: £2,500 on average. The sooner they change title to Conveyance Blackmail – the better!
I hope this post has enlightened you and others who were a little misguided.
99% of car buyers these days, know exactly what they are looking for. They can’t be fooled and they won’t be sweet-talked. I find it odd that there are no alarm bells ringing for the “recent bare chassis restoration” in the Spanish add. Maybe innocent enough. My 1981 R4TL is similar colour. No waxoil; No underseal; No corrosion………….
Good Luck,
dave
Allow me to offer my input and hopefully put some daylight between fact and guesswork. Speaking as an experienced vehicle importer, the reason that sellers are reluctant to proceed past the NOVA stage is the result of ministerial interference on an industrial scale. Dotty, Potty, Dot.Gov.UK decided to close 37 DVLA local offices in the Autumn of 2013. Net result: 871 immediate redundancies.
Before this date, import registration was a delight. Living so near, for me it was a visit to the local office, put the completed form on the counter [face2face]; the vehicle’s registration document from country of origin; the UK test certificate on V.I.Number; insurance cover note on V.I.Number; registration fee [was £25] and road fund licence fee [6 or 12 months]. I provided my telephone number and three working days later, was given the option of collecting, or receiving by Royal Mail. I repeat: Three Working Days. I chose always to collect.
Now it’s a chore. No more face2face. Everything by post. Fee gone up to £55. My first attempt under the “new streamlined system” [Government jargon for colossal cock-up], was unpleasant and stressful. Document bundle despatched Royal Mail recorded on March 6th this year. Reminder from my insurers after four weeks that I had not provided a UK registration number for my classic VW T4. Explained that it was out of my control since I had heard nothing from the DVLA. I was then bombarded daily by text and eMail that my insurance policy would be cancelled if I did not forward the UK registration number. They even sent me a copy of the Road Traffic Act legislation covering their obligation regarding imported vehicles and chassis number cover. On the 23rd April, my cheque appeared as a cleared item on my statement, and the V5 arrived at my home next day.
If you wish the importer to register a Renault 4 for you, are you prepared to hand over a few thousand quid but not able to collect the vehicle for six weeks?
Do you expect the importer to tie-up their insurance for six weeks?
The buyer has to insure their new acquisition at some time. Doing so at point of purchase surely makes sense to everyone. The buyer then trailer’s their car home, and has 5 or 6 weeks to polish and customise their pride and joy until the postman arrives.
I have even offered a unique service to members of this forum, which short-circuits government insanity. Buy my Portuguese registered white R4GTL and drive it around on my insurance on Portuguese index plates until the UK registration is completed. [You must be over 27 and under 70] The Portuguese M.O.T. is valid until November. All I need from you is the purchase price and an insurance cover note on the Renault’s chassis number. We complete the application in 20 minutes and you send it immediately to the DVLA recorded. Jump in the car and drive away!
I was in Swansea yesterday collecting VW parts. I called at the DVLA on my way home to enquire about a fast track option for imports. There isn’t one!
I respect anyone’s preference to a R.H.D Renault 4. Regrettably, we have to accept that all but the hardiest vehicles are under a death sentence after just one winter’s use on Britain’s treated roads.
Addressing the comments in your first post 09/07/2015, the NOVA is obligatory, as you have correctly stated. It has to be made within 10 days of vehicle arrival or face a fine. This application is made directly to HMRC, who then provide a 17 digit submission reference number. Without that number, any application to register an import would be rejected. For potential Renault 4 owners, this is further senseless legislation as there is no record of any applicant paying V.A.T on vehicles 10 years old or more. It is wholly separate from the registration process.
Colin > “IT DOESN’T COST A LOT MORE OR TAKE LONG…..” that statement is now out of date for the reasons given above.
I believe your next paragraph is more negative and is crowned by: “I know people who have fallen foul of not having the correct paperwork“. Why would anyone expect to have an application granted without the correct paper-work. It is the responsibility of the applicant. Forgive my interpretation if I’m wrong, but I feel that you are placing blame on everyone except the buyer.
I have never entered an engine number on an import application. If I don’t have it – I can’t pluck it from thin air. I have never been questioned on this issue and have never had an application form rejected.
Some readers may deem your use of: dealer; dealing; quick buck; selling high; my anxieties, as bordering on the toxic.
Your second post mentions an Estafette, where you were offered the opportunity to effect the import application yourself, but the difference in cost wasn’t worth the time and effort. If you couldn’t justify the time and effort then, I’m sure you wouldn’t relish the hassle of the same job in 2015.
Since 2008, each time I have purchased real-estate, I go to the Land Registry in Swansea. Take 20 minutes to fill some forms in, hand the seller a cheque, and pick the deeds up one week later [Rocket Science it is not] Saving on solicitor’s conveyance charges: £2,500 on average. The sooner they change title to Conveyance Blackmail – the better!
I hope this post has enlightened you and others who were a little misguided.
99% of car buyers these days, know exactly what they are looking for. They can’t be fooled and they won’t be sweet-talked. I find it odd that there are no alarm bells ringing for the “recent bare chassis restoration” in the Spanish add. Maybe innocent enough. My 1981 R4TL is similar colour. No waxoil; No underseal; No corrosion………….
Good Luck,
dave
Colin
Enthusiast
- Messages
- 27
- Location
- Luton
Dave
Many thanks for your detailed reply. I was hoping someone with more experience than I would respond.
Things have changed, I too had a local dvla office within three miles, then it closed and the nearest was a 45 min drive. I remember face to face re- regging Q plates to correct years was no real hassle, and even a vehicle inspection was carried out in the car park. I guess as enthusiasts we're just collateral damage to the mighty dvla machine.
The piece about people trying to import without the full paperwork is because of some ebay ads I've seen where they claim to have the necessary paperwork and they don't. A case of caveat emptor perhaps, but I even telephoned dvla on a couple of occasions and was told it wouldn't be an issue and they were "sure we could work something out" even though the vehicle I was thinking of had no carte Gris just some official looking foreign paper possibly a HP agreement or even a parking ticket, I wouldn't know.
Seriously you have shed light on the subject for me, certainly as an individual taking the time to respond means I have now a level of trust.
May even be interested in your GTL as it happens, keep looking at the ads.
Many thanks for your detailed reply. I was hoping someone with more experience than I would respond.
Things have changed, I too had a local dvla office within three miles, then it closed and the nearest was a 45 min drive. I remember face to face re- regging Q plates to correct years was no real hassle, and even a vehicle inspection was carried out in the car park. I guess as enthusiasts we're just collateral damage to the mighty dvla machine.
The piece about people trying to import without the full paperwork is because of some ebay ads I've seen where they claim to have the necessary paperwork and they don't. A case of caveat emptor perhaps, but I even telephoned dvla on a couple of occasions and was told it wouldn't be an issue and they were "sure we could work something out" even though the vehicle I was thinking of had no carte Gris just some official looking foreign paper possibly a HP agreement or even a parking ticket, I wouldn't know.
Seriously you have shed light on the subject for me, certainly as an individual taking the time to respond means I have now a level of trust.
May even be interested in your GTL as it happens, keep looking at the ads.
Apprentice
pre-moderated
- Messages
- 84
- Location
- Carmarthen
thank you Colin. Can I post some Portuguese websites here for your guidance to what's about. Caveat Emptor indeed. I travelled 9 hours by train well north of Lisbon to view a white R4. stunning pictures, taken 2 years earlier. I left it where it was. I believe it's called "taking it on the chin" ha ha HAA
best regards
best regards
Apprentice
pre-moderated
- Messages
- 84
- Location
- Carmarthen
Good morning TC,
With minor differences, I believe European motor insurers mirror one another’s business plan. They load young drivers and old farts because, presumably, they present a greater risk. I’m sure you’re aware that’s the way it works. We hand over our premiums, they accept the risk. As customers, we yearn for the day when the Claims Settlement Department, and those who dream-up the TV ads, are combined! However, I find that horror-stories are popping-up less frequently. [or am I just an optimist?]
Types of Insurance
Most insurance companies offer specific packages aimed at social/age groups such as:
- Young people (Jovens)
- University students (Universitários)
- Drivers abroad (Portugueses no Estrangeiro) (usually gives 30-day extendable cover for any Portuguese driver or foreigner with a Portuguese Residency Card)
- Senior Citizens (Seniores)
In a verbal explanation, my broker cited under 27 years old for Jovens, and over 70 years for Seniores.
Incidentally, pan-European breakdown cover is included as standard on the proposal. Choosing to “opt-out” is frowned upon since the consequences of fuel or lubricant spillage on the highway carries serious consequences.
I guess we are pretty lucky in the UK at the moment,
Best regards,
Apprentice
pre-moderated
- Messages
- 84
- Location
- Carmarthen
No No No TC,
I'm the one who should apologise.
I've returned to my script and admit to elements of confusion.
P.S.
three years and a bit before I qualify for "old fart" status myself
I'm the one who should apologise.
I've returned to my script and admit to elements of confusion.
P.S.
three years and a bit before I qualify for "old fart" status myself
mr-reno-139
AKA Paul Cunningham
- Messages
- 2,247
- Location
- lancing west sussex england
Interesting reading I suspect the notification of vehicle arrival NOVA form is just a means of alerting the authorities of potential high value classics moving round Europe and the potential for revenue raising in taxation and finding a reason to create jobs somehow checking forms filled in correctly
Probably easier to bring loads of tobacco and alcohol in and sell that as that can be sold easily with no paperwork to fill in ☺
Reading the nova requirements it would seem that I could have to put my rodeo that I am restoring on a trailer daytrip to france and then on way back stop at customs shed to pick up a form to fill in
Or will I have to pay 20 years worth of fines because it wasn't done earlier
Yours confused Paul
Probably easier to bring loads of tobacco and alcohol in and sell that as that can be sold easily with no paperwork to fill in ☺
Reading the nova requirements it would seem that I could have to put my rodeo that I am restoring on a trailer daytrip to france and then on way back stop at customs shed to pick up a form to fill in
Or will I have to pay 20 years worth of fines because it wasn't done earlier
Yours confused Paul
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
- Messages
- 4,519
- Location
- Bedford UK
My Rodeo came into the country before the Nova1 rule. I just wrote on the paperwork that it had arrived the previous weekend. I think you can download the from from the internet. There is no fee but it takes them a month to process.
mr-reno-139
AKA Paul Cunningham
- Messages
- 2,247
- Location
- lancing west sussex england
Probably easier now but searching google months ago my attempts were hampered by all the advertising for a software company called nova that is designed to used with PDF files
Did eventually get a form from a scooter website but it wouldn't open on mobile phone and had to use friends desktop
Did eventually get a form from a scooter website but it wouldn't open on mobile phone and had to use friends desktop
Apprentice
pre-moderated
- Messages
- 84
- Location
- Carmarthen
Hi guys,
I make my NOVA declarations on line via Government Gateway/hmrc page. Their decision is immediate along with the all-important submission number. Obviously no human interference. I'm sure that this nova nonsense wasn't around when I brought my T4camper from Munchen, early January 2013. It's just a personal view, but I don't believe there's a witch-hunt against classic car importers. Generally speaking, the 10 year old vehicles rule let's us off the hook!
Best regards
I make my NOVA declarations on line via Government Gateway/hmrc page. Their decision is immediate along with the all-important submission number. Obviously no human interference. I'm sure that this nova nonsense wasn't around when I brought my T4camper from Munchen, early January 2013. It's just a personal view, but I don't believe there's a witch-hunt against classic car importers. Generally speaking, the 10 year old vehicles rule let's us off the hook!
Best regards
Apprentice
pre-moderated
- Messages
- 84
- Location
- Carmarthen
Spooky that we should be discussing this very subject so recently. While browsing some Citroen 2cv sites today, I followed a link to cars > classic cars > Citroen and found this strange Citroen on eBay:
1975 Renault 4 Van Cool Retro Vintage Van 2cv
…………………All import duties have been paid
and that's the line that caught my eye, towards the bottom of the item description. Firstly, I thought duty may have been payable because it is a van [not a car]. Then I noticed the side windows. and then I remembered the VW Crew-Cab T4 truck that I brought in from Dusseldorf last February. No-one asked me for any "import duties".
Incidentally, the listing states: "superb condition" twice and "in excellent condition overall".
I wonder if the photos in the ad are of a different vehicle to the one offered, or is my visit to the optician overdue??
regards as always
Apprentice
pre-moderated
- Messages
- 84
- Location
- Carmarthen
Verdict ??