Clementine's Garage
Clementine the Cat
 
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Yellow R4
 
Réparateur d'automobiles

Renault 4 accident on the road

Messages
427
#41
It all depends on your insurance company and how serious the damage. Car are categorised according to the level of damage, ones like this should be fine. Most classic policy's have a salvage retention clause, always worth checking that before you take out cover. If you have a 4 on a regular insurance then a world of pain awaits you.
You are likely to get more for a whiplash claim than the car!
 
Messages
270
Location
Poole
#42
In the UK, the insuance cannot always tell me what to do. Since 2017, rules have been in place to list damaged vehicles in different classes according to the extent of the damage; The Association of British Insurers (ABI) Salvage Code goes into more detail on how vehicles are judged and what must happen to them (summary):

Category A– The vehicle is unable to be repaired and has to be scrapped.

Category B– The vehicle is unable to be repaired and the body shell has to be scrapped but parts of it can be salvaged.

Category N– The vehicle has non-structural damage and is not safe to drive until professionally repaired. Other costs such as transporting the vehicle means costs would be greater than the vehicle’s value.

Category S– The vehicle has structural damage and is not safe to drive until professionally repaired. But the cost of the repairs is higher than the current value of the vehicle.

This is confusing; the old categories A to D no longer apply. If the insurers think that the car is not worth repairing, they will set a market price to pay me for it, but then I can sometimes (categories N and S as above) buy it back cheaply to repair it (or break it for parts) at my own cost if I want to. One can then drive it again, but an engineer's report is needed (I think) after repairs are complete, so that it can be certified safe to drive again. The fact that the insurance company has 'written it off' in category S means that the car has that history recorded in it's DVLA records forever.

I think my Renault will be a Category N, and hopefully DVLA will not keep a record of it being written off. By the way, Stuart Delohoy, my van is on normal insurance :(
 
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malcolm

& Clementine the Cat
Staff member
Messages
4,135
Location
Bedford UK
#45
Someone wrote off my yellow car (Ermintrude) years ago just 3 days after the rebuild. I think people just don't see yellow cars. Even with the sun in the right direction my theory is it's like Spitfires flying from the direction of the sun.

Please don't let the insurance scrap it. It is really easy to get demotivated after something like that happens, but it doesn't look that bad and should be an quick enough fix even if you just knock it back to shape with a hammer temporarily and drive around in it again. If all else fails one of us would pick it up at the buy back price, and first dibs please as my van went rusty and I miss it.
 
Messages
270
Location
Poole
#46
Someone wrote off my yellow car (Ermintrude) years ago just 3 days after the rebuild. I think people just don't see yellow cars. Even with the sun in the right direction my theory is it's like Spitfires flying from the direction of the sun.

Please don't let the insurance scrap it. It is really easy to get demotivated after something like that happens, but it doesn't look that bad and should be an quick enough fix even if you just knock it back to shape with a hammer temporarily and drive around in it again. If all else fails one of us would pick it up at the buy back price, and first dibs please as my van went rusty and I miss it.
No worries Malcolm - I fully intend to keep it one way or another but am having daymares with my insurers Post Office Insurance (brokers) - in no way do I recommend them; I have now cut them out of the loop altogether and am talking to their underwriter (Sabre Insurance), who seem more on the ball.

It's ended up being a horrible tangled network of separate companies arranging hire-car/inspection/valuation/repair/uninsured loss claim/underwriters and probably others that haven't popped up yet.

Since I am still shaky from saturday's crunch I am particularly pissed off about having to do the broker's legwork all over again since they seem like a bunch of tw*ts. The insurance was cheap at £160 annually but am not sure it was worth it now.
 
Messages
270
Location
Poole
#47
Bright yellow and she still couldn't see you, should she even be on the road?
NO - plus she was rude and left any apologies to her son-in-law. One bright note was a lovely bus driver from MoreBus who wrote down his contact details and offered his dashcam footage after asking if I was OK (he was brave - he almost interrupted my red-mist rant at the other driver). I have send a commendation email to his depot - he was the only one of the many witnesses to offer contact details.
 
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laxeian

Enthusiast
Messages
252
Location
Galicia
#49
Had a similar accident to this moons ago in a bright yellow ( 3 shades of bright yellow candy with flip flop and flames) 69 351ci V8 Mustang Mach1 show car, totally gutted, guy pulling out didn’t see ( yellow!?), or hear (3500 stall converter, 2x4 into 2 3” headers stright through with cherrybombs.), you could see your reflection ripple in high street shop windows.
Upside, other driver did get 6 points and fine, insurance assessor agreed repair ( total respray, paint could never be panel matched ) at actually double the original insured value, don't loose hope.
Did not have it resprayed yellow....
 
Messages
270
Location
Poole
#50
Had a similar accident to this moons ago in a bright yellow ( 3 shades of bright yellow candy with flip flop and flames) 69 351ci V8 Mustang Mach1 show car, totally gutted, guy pulling out didn’t see ( yellow!?), or hear (3500 stall converter, 2x4 into 2 3” headers stright through with cherrybombs.), you could see your reflection ripple in high street shop windows.
Upside, other driver did get 6 points and fine, insurance assessor agreed repair ( total respray, paint could never be panel matched ) at actually double the original insured value, don't loose hope.
Did not have it resprayed yellow....
Sounds like a lovely ott beast!
 

laxeian

Enthusiast
Messages
252
Location
Galicia
#51
Was a full 70/80s ott custom/gasser show car called ‘The Duke’, was originally green with John Wayne murals etc hence name, I bought it in its later yellow guise , featured car in Custom Car, Street Machine used it on stands at shows etc.
Been a bit abused by time I got it, but still an experience!
 

Eoynteenie

Planning an Advent4
Messages
534
Location
South Coast
#54
can see the red paint Paul was talking about
 
Messages
270
Location
Poole
#58
I hope so Jasper !
Update: So far, and after many hours of phone calls and emails to the many different companies doing (almost) the same job it seems, here is where I am:
Initially trailered away as an old-banger write-off to go to scrap auction or to be crushed, my van is currently categorised as a category B write-off (body must be crushed, illegal to go back on the road) classic vehicle, with agreed market value finally persuaded up to a reasonable £4000. I have read the engineer's report, and no chassis damage (apart from the replaceable front cross-piece) is listed. I am pressing for a downgrade to category S (uneconomical for insurer to pay for a repair, but in theory repairable), on grounds of rarity, precedent (it has happened before) and sentimental attachment. I may receive a reply to this plea tomorrow.

A couple of weeks after the crunch the insurer finally admitted it was a classic vehicle and they had it sent from death-row for a proper repair exam at a specialist assessor, who concluding that it would cost about £4800 to repair. As a consequence the best I can hope for is either a payout (van scrapped, write-off category stays as B) or a payout and re-purchase of the wreck as it is (if I can persuade a downgrade to category S and keep the van). I still hope to repair it eventually, but I did hope that a garage could do that for me, as this journey (ha ha) has taken it's toll on me and repairing it as well could be rubbing salt into the wound. All assuming, I guess, that the assessors swallow a little pride and change the classification. Scrap value seems to be £150.

An amazingly long and unpleasant journey (!) so far, made even less palatable by the other driver's attitude and casual inattention plus my need afterwards to repeatedly whip all concerned to even understand that it is a van worth considering save-able. It seems driving something old and unusual is punishable by indifference and general ineptitude. An unexpected bonus has been the despicable vultures ringing me up pretending to be my insurer (et al) and trying to con me into changing insurers/solicitors to their own company, in effect. Quite convincing in some cases, as they had my name, phone number, knowledge of my insurer and my van. For a while I didn't answer my phone to anyone I didn't know; now I have developed a substantial contacts list of 'scammer1', 'scammer2', etc so I can see which one is calling! That I should need such a list is sickening.
 

malcolm

& Clementine the Cat
Staff member
Messages
4,135
Location
Bedford UK
#59
The modern world is very silly. Cat B is ridiculous for that damage. It's a front wing, triangle panel, that bendy bit of chassis that often rusts off, a bonnet and a bit of paint to get it perfect again. Please keep pushing for a more sensible rating and argue with those idiots. It's your van and you are entitled to control it's destiny.

It is soul destroying to have a smash. Someone crashed into my yellow Ermintrude just 2 days after restoration. I think yellow Renault 4s are a bit like Spitfires flying out of the sun (whatever the sun direction). I used the money to pay for a holiday and I never got around to fixing everything properly. For yours a pragmatic owner with a big hammer would only need a new front wing.

Please stay with it and fight for our cause.
 
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