1985 F6, now in Galicia

[laxeian]

Thankfully it seems to be good news week, checked the valves are seating correctly by refitting plugs and filling combustion chambers with petrol, no leaks on any of the valves, did the same thing with petrol down the cylinder bores, rings fine ( will be changing oil-filters as a matter of course), borrowed a flat/true machined block to place on top of block whilst sliding it across block liners with a bright light behind it, no visible light seepage to be seen as sliding it across, same procedure on head, same result so it looks as if after these checks I was v-lucky and have just had a head gasket failure causing the low compression. Also been recommended a local good machine shop,( see how good they are 1st,v-tempted with the 1.4 conversion I have read on other threads here) so head and manifolds will be getting a light skim before all going back together to be sure to be sure.
Tried contacting that bonnet Andy, tried and tried, guy must of gone on holiday after placing add!

 

[laxeian]

Well all projects seem to take unexpected turns......
Got engine ready for taking out to take to machine shop and then started the parts search...
Well Ive ordered some 76 mm pistons and liners so it looks as it will return to road as a 1400, crank is getting balanced, flywheel, to toghether with con rods, engine bay will be repainted when engine out,
Here the question.... been searching for a manifold to fit a 32 dia carb on, but whilst searching saw there was a manifold for a twin choke Weber 32 DIS avaliable on 12TS/x and renault 5TX’s, these are quite plentiful here through adds, ( nearly bought a complete 12TS with fergats for €60 today!) are there any other models that these where fitted to? ( might make search easier)
Heres a few progression photos, just cleaning up what I know will be going back on at this stage.....

 

[Jnr-Renospeed]

If you are still using the 1108cc crankshaft and rods, the stroke will still be the same as normal (72mm). So, your engine will have 1306cc's not 1397, meaning it will not be as powerful as the standard 1397cc R5 engine which has a 76mm stroke.

The twin-choke 32 Weber carburettor and manifold was also fitted, to our Cleon engines, in the 1289cc Renault 5 LS/TS/Alpine and 1397cc Renault 18 TL, but the jet sizes might be different for different models.

The carb was fitted to many Renault models 5,12,16, Fuego … These were all different from each other with different jets and opening intervals for the secondary choke.
For example: a 5 Alpine carb would give a far sportier response than a R5 TS or 18 32 Weber, because the secondary choke opens earlier, and it has larger jets. However, the 32’s intake manifold from a R5 Alpine or 1600cc 16/17/18 or Fuego will not fit on your 1108 cylinder head. So if you choose this R5 Alpine or 1600cc carb you need and R5 TS or R18 TL manifold.

If you're using an original Renault 4 1108cc camshaft and ignition timing, the best match of 32 carb would be from a R5 TS/TX or 1397 R18 TL, which I believe both share the same tune of camshaft as the R4 GTL, so it will suit the tune of your new engine the best!

You will also need the appropriate rocker cover from a R5/12/18 so you can fit throttle linkage for the 32 carb easily.

This is all bit complicated but it would be a great upgrade, as with the normal 28IF Zenith the bigger engine will not make much difference in HP or torque due to the restrictive 28IF stopping it from ‘breathing’.

 

[laxeian]

Thank Jnr,
Going to try to get response tomorrow, saw this and thought ‘Yeah’ fergats and a suitable carb/manifold!

MIL ANUNCIOS.COM - Despiece Renault 12

Despiece Renault 12 Motor 810-02 gasolina. se venden piezas recambios repuestos. motor completo en buen estado. tenemos video arrancado. carrocería, frontal, mecánica, piloto lateral derecho, bomba embrague, palanca cambio, varillaje, articulacion limpia, deposito limpia, , bombin, ce

www.milanuncios.com

 

[Jnr-Renospeed]

Thank Jnr,
Going to try to get response tomorrow, saw this and thought ‘Yeah’ fergats and a suitable carb/manifold!

MIL ANUNCIOS.COM - Despiece Renault 12

Despiece Renault 12 Motor 810-02 gasolina. se venden piezas recambios repuestos. motor completo en buen estado. tenemos video arrancado. carrocería, frontal, mecánica, piloto lateral derecho, bomba embrague, palanca cambio, varillaje, articulacion limpia, deposito limpia, , bombin, ce

www.milanuncios.com

No problem Laxeian. That 12's carb and rocker cover setup looks perfect for your engine.

Unfortunately Renault 12 Fergats will NOT fit on a Renault 4 ! Only Fergats from a Renault 5 or some Renault 4 editions will fit onto your wheel studs.
Fergats on 4's and most R5's are 4.5 inches wide, but the 5 Alpine has 5.5 inch wide Fergats but these are hard to find in good condition. My car has the 5.5 inch wide R5 Alpine wheels, you can view these on my ''My First Renault 4'' thread.

 

[laxeian]

Hope I have gone in the right direction.. just placed deposit on an intake, 32 mm carb rocker cover and all linkages off of an 86 5GTL...

 

[laxeian]

These arrived yesterday:-


Its an engine and box from a low km 6Gtl, has a 32mm zenith, so taller gearing and more ‘power’, all looks good, car was a runner that was rear-ended, engine looks as if it came from an enthusiast before myself, all I look at looks recently replaced. Waiting on engine hoist arriving and it should all be coming back together and on the road soon(ish)!

 

[laxeian]

Spent a little time looking closer at the 6 motor and the existing, looking for differences, all the manifold water heater pipes are there for manifold, bleed valve in line, pulleys on 6 are a slightly different on water pump to the 4 ( possible down to Fasa?), the water pump pulleys are in a reversed position, larger slight bigger dia. on 6, alternator bracket bracket different, the position the original sits in the engine bay is lower in the F6 , will simply swap the original onto 6, no1 plug is easier to get at, if still fiddly. Thats why other engine bay photos the alternators just looked ‘different’!
Both fuel pumps look identical, but on the F6 is one way on 6 engine other, again going with F6 position in 6 way looks as it will foul alternator.
Lifted photo off off Marios thread just to show differences, side view of 6 motor in previous post, F6 as it came above.

 

[laxeian]

Unfortunately engine and gearbox pictured earlier from 6 were not as good as photos indicated, gearbox supplied for cleon was for earlier 6 ie 4 reverse 1 forward, engine was a jet-washed lump with new external ancillaries, so I have rebuilt original, skimmed head, rebuilt bottom end, bearings etc, cam was good so reused, have used ancillaries off of 6 engine as well as manifold, rocker cover and carb. Sourced a different gearbox from a 4GTL from the nearest classic Renault specialist I could find, Pacolugo Classicos, which after a 2 1/2 hour drive to meet check and pick up box can only recommend, real Renault enthusiast, got a lovely 8 rally prepped in workshop/web page.
So I am now at the stage after rebuilding engine, prepping gearbox,engine and engine bay that this empty space
will have this combination re-installed and all fitted up tomorrow

After thats done I have all the parts sitting in flat to rebuild the front suspension/steering, new driveshafts etc before it hits the road again, currently waiting on a new bonnet/grill bumper and irons to arrive, on the look out for two new/good complete bonnet hinges if anyone can point/advise, the wild boar left mine a bit distorted...

 

[Andy McGhee]

Ian
If you can salvage the other halves of the hinges, here are some ideas:

BONNET HINGE RENAULT R4

Engine cover hinge for RENAULT R4. Fits on the crossbar. Original reference (OEM): 08243948, 0824507200.

www.melun-retro-passion.com

Renault r4 door and bonnet pin (bag of 2)

Door and hood axles for Renault R4, 4L, R4L, R4F4, F4, R4F6, F6. Diameter: 6.2 mm, Length: 40 mm, Thickness: 10/10 mm. Original part number: 7703067177

www.melun-retro-passion.com

Elément de charnière de capot pour Renault R4 4L à l'unité.

Partie inférieure de la charnière de capot pour Renault R4 4L berline ou fourgonnette F4 ou F6. Pièce livrée prête à monter. Ref. Renault Equivalente(s) : 08 24 507 200, 0824507200,

vehicules-anciens.fr

Goupilles élastiques pour capot de Renault R4 4L. La paire.

Goupilles de capot élastique pour Renault R4 4L berline ou fourgonnette F4 ou F6. Strictement conformes, se montent de lieu et place de votre ancienne pièce, sans modification. Ref. Renault Equivalente(s) : 77 03 067 177, 7703067177,

vehicules-anciens.fr

The other halves (expensive):

RENAULT 4 BONNET HINGE (SET 2PC) 0608332800-0608332700 | eBay

BONNET HINGE. RENAULT CODE. (PEUGEOT - RENAULT).

www.ebay.com

I'm sure someone will have a good used pair.

Hope you're back on the road soon!

 

[laxeian]

Got its heart back in...

 

[laxeian]

Happy days today, delivery of parts arrived, pair of driveshafts, some more gaskets, bushes for gear-linkage, new bumper and irons, grill, but it the silly things that put a smile on my face, now to source two chrome ‘U’s and two chrome ‘N’s’ to follow the F’s on these, going to leave chrome 6’s out incase anyone following and reading the mud-flaps got the wrong impression...
Trial fitting the carb, with the 32Zenith will have to shorten the throttle cable and the choke cable is too short, to overcome this have just ordered a Renault 12 choke cable, the internal part is identical to my F6, with connection for dash light but is longer length (F6=655mm@, 12=1100mm) so it will reach the carb and operate choke.(The orientation of operation is different, Solex is in-line with engine, rearwards towards bulkhead whilst the Zenith is operated from right to left, so cable needs to be longer)

 

[laxeian]

Todays progress, both sides stripped, factory ball joint rivets aren’t easy when my assistant insists on checking progress, hopefully tomorrow I will be fitting it all back up with new bushes/silent blocks if I get the prep and paint finished in the under arch area.

 

[laxeian]

Things are taking me a little longer than expected, but well on the home stretch, things like having the expansion/washer bottle sitting in one of the kitchen sinks for a few days in bleach just get back the new look before reinstalling, gone a bit OCD putting it back together, guy I share garage space with opened other access door and 1st time in sunlight, so photo opportunity, at stage where it’s only thing is loom, cables, manifold to box tube ( paint drying while pic taken, 5 minute job turned into hours, like many..) to re-fit but its got to be just so..
Engine the carb and manifold came on had all the pipe cut at source, the T connection had the smaller tube snapped, breather to rocker cover, clear pipe, the carb is a Zenith 32 if 8, would the broken smaller pipe from T piece go to the vacuum in photo below carb on manifold, should there be any valves or restrictors in this pipe?( there were none between rocker-carb)
It also didn’t come with factory air cleaner so for time being gone with a universal for 32mm carb, has option for a vacuum, does this carb setup need one, having difficulty trying to find photo/diagram of the set up so am appealing to forum expertise and knowledge.

 

[malcolm]

Well Ive ordered some 76 mm pistons and liners so it looks as it will return to road as a 1400, crank is getting balanced, flywheel, to toghether with con rods, engine bay will be repainted when engine out,

R4 liner seals were paper and 1400 are rubber O ring. Can you fit 1400 liners into an 1108 block? Any modifications needed?

 

[laxeian]

R4 liner seals were paper and 1400 are rubber O ring. Can you fit 1400 liners into an 1108 block? Any modifications needed?

In the end I cancelled order when I started to add up costs of parts and what are advertised appear as good low km working units from breakers on milanouncious/wallapop here, the price of kit was €350@, complete engine/boxs @€250-450, also knowing that tool wise I now have a good travelling toolkit, but only that and whats been added over the last 10 years, my workshop tools vanished in the UK,so either way was plus hoist to do myself knowing that any machine work would add and the van being my (not so for long time)daily logistically and possibly linguistically be hard work, so I went for the unit swap from a 6, only to receive a shot box from a way older 6 than advertised and a nicely jetwashed engine that had all the ancillaries bolted to it for a rebuild but they stopped when they sheared manifold stud in the head and snapped a drill bit in the head trying to drill it out and just bolted it all up as done, took rocker off some tappets were mm gaps no .1-.2mm, an oil refinery of sludge and head off multi coloured valves, some in seats, all far far worse than what it was bought to replace internally, cunning hidden in all photos by the seatbelt strap even I was still using to move about garage...so I blew the piston money on an engine and non box thinking it would save time. After that fun event just rebuilt original as original, everything apart and checked, new timing chain , tensioner, mains, piston wise they are standard, new gaskets etc. but a standard rebuild, head skimmed gearbox from Paco Lugo from 4gtl and carb manifold from pig iron post. Do like the idea of more cc’s though, read a South African 6gtl spec sheet on one of the car sites, they were supplied in that market with a 1.4, but it was the torque figure compared to the EU spec 1.1 that looked fun.

 

[laxeian]

Been so slow at getting things back together due to other stuff getting in the way that in typical modern fashion the petrol in the tank had gone off, so tank out, blown lines, tank through, checked, cleaned float assembly, tank inside and out, after cleaning and removing under-seal tank really is like new, with tank out its given me the 1st chance to look at inside of chassis, under dirt and under-seal its remarkable, cleaned the inner right in photo with the now inert petrol from tank, absolutely no rust, factory paint, even the suspension mounting bolts still shine, amazing for 37 years.
Bonnet arrived, series 2 not 3 so no lower grill, fit and quality spot on, spoke to suppliers its the only type they stock, bonnet from other suppliers are min €200 new plus ship, one with lower grill is €270 plus ship so for the difference this one is staying at €161 all in, no. plate just return to where it came from when I originally purchased van.

 

[laxeian]

Finished cleaning/detailing the rear end underneath, heres some pics:-
View attachment 30912

 

[Andy McGhee]

Finished cleaning/detailing the rear end underneath, heres some pics:-
View attachment 30909View attachment 30910View attachment 30911View attachment 30912View attachment 30918

That looks amazing! Is the F6 back on the road?

 

[laxeian]

Thanks Andy, its all up and running but not ITV’d yet, this may not be for a while yet as I have recently acquired a compressor and paint guns/air tools and have a few months window of sole use in garage,